Quote:

---

Shadow is a Sonic character. Even if a Shadow franchise is built up (which I sincerely doubt) it'd still be derived from the Sonic franchise, an all ages franchise.hr>

Look at Conker... started out in Diddy Kong, E rated, then did that little E rated gameboy game, then did 2 M rated games that rly pushed the shock value

thats an MP5 submachine gun

Looking at those screenshots and the video, I'd have to say ShTH is borrowing more elements from Parasite Eve rather than Jak or Ratchet or DMC. Doesn't it look like a bunch of Chaos creatures threatening to displace normal life?

Plus when I saw that Shadow poster, I got all tingley. Seriously looking forward to this one.

-Shakudo-

C&P from the hallowed halls of the Penny Arcade forums:
CONSUMERS: Your new Sonic games are weird and clumsy. They are boring and lack the classic, fast-paced feel of old Sonic games. The central Sonic gameplay does not receive enough development and polish, and too much of the game time and emphasis is spent on the extraneous zoo of "gimmick" peripheral characters, the usage of whom always feels like poorly-conceived minigames.

SEGA: Wow, what will we do. Wait, I know, let's make an entire game based around one of the peripheral characters. Ooh, and we'll give him superpowers! And a gun!
~mcc

Hey guys! I'm Jay and this hot-topic just really pushed me into actually getting an account here, and posting my thoughts and opinions on regards to this videogame: Shadow the Hedgehog.

Now am I a newbie? Absolutely not; I have actually been a dedicated and devoted Sonic fan since the release of Sonic the Hedgehog 2, and I have followed it and played the majority of the released games ever since! But a newbie here, yeah I am ..

Anyways, I am also a dedicated worker who is making his way to becoming a committed Game Designer.

Think about it. Would Jak and all these games exist without the hedgehog? There could be a possibility of a "no".

Therefore: I know quite a bit on the Gaming Market and I know quite a bit about that revolutionary hedgehog, Sonic!

So off we go!

For one thing, I have been reading quite a bit of responses on the subject of "rip-offs".

Thanks, that's all I have to say!

Except for:

1)

Quote:

---

Don't judge a book by its cover.

---

and

2)

Just give it a shot, don't bypass it! It'll be fun, and I trust it'll rate an 8, or higher. It's not the final product, and you have absolutely no complete data on it, nor a real long game-play footage demo ... so just relax, and be happy that we're actually falling back into the old-school world where you're just one guy, going through an awesome fast-paced fluid adventure.

Remember, this is an OPINION. All humans naturally hold their own thoughts, and not all of them can be altered. If you guys, who are trying, really want to alter some of these opinions, then you'll have to really have some persuasive techniques in your writings, and some back-up information. I am just stating my own opinion though, I am NOT trying to change ANYONE's opinion, regardless of how I said some things.

Thank you, again!
---
Deus (G.O.D.)
god.of.design@gmail.com

It's not a hoax.

That would be absolutely STUPID to do a hoax in such an event.

Yet I am more interested in this week's Game Developer's conference!
---
Deus (G.O.D.)
god.of.design@gmail.com

Well, looked at the trailer a half-dozen more times. The two guages at the top have nothing to do with health. During the one part that Shadow was flying the blue one was decreasing steadily. Then when he busted out that chaos explosion I saw the red one deplete itself. So at least rings still equal health in the new game.

-Shakudo-

In case this hasn't been mentioned, no it is not just on ps2. Hence IGN having it as a top story on the gamecube page for ign.

I have a logical estimation.

There exists two gauges: a blue one, and a red one.

The blue gauge is powered up from power rings. Once it is filled, you will be enabled to press a button in order to temporarily blast with intense speeds.

The red gauge is powered from doing an action, like hitting an enemy or something. Once it is filled, you'll be enabled to press a button to do some type of crazed blast attack. I don't know of any of Shadow's moves, guesses?

This is just a guess, not actual data. But it sounds pretty possible to me.

---
Deus (G.O.D.)
god.of.design@gmail.com

Actually I just noticed the blue guage was building up as Shadow was comboing multiple homing attacks on the flying creatures. Couldn't see the red one building up with anything, though.

-Shakudo-

Hm .. then perhaps the opposite of what I said.

Ah well, only guesses from here on out.

You know, I don't think I would put it past Shadow to use a gun. It seems to fit with his psychotic, self-righteous nature. However I had just imagined him as having all these energy based powers. Sonic Battle showed him with glowing fists teleporting all over shooting blasts of light.

It just seems weird for someone with such power to use something so mundane as a gun. Guns are boring.

But still I don't think he's beyond vaporizing a soldier and snatching up his gun to use against that soldier's comrades.

Whatever his motivation, he would most certainly feel justified so he would use what ever means he deemed necessary. Dude has issues. Gun, chaos control, giant laser on a space station ... all just a means to the ends.

That's the best kind of villain. The kind that thinks what he's doing is right.

To be honest Eggman, Shadow and Rouge are the only ones they could make a fresh new game about in a way.

Tails, has built and driven all the new stuff he needs to and we know about his past.

Knuckles is too aloof and bland to do anything but fetch quests, I mean other than the Master Emerald being stolen and/or shattered, what would get him off his tail and do something? Of course the M,E, did blow up for whatever reason in Sonic Battle didn't it?

Sonic is just a care free guy that runs fast and has no need for a past. A past would be looking back and that aint his style... We've tapped that well as deep as we could, haven't we?

The dark guys are the only ones left with any real mystique about them. Give them a chance to set the stage for the next big Sonic, Tails and Knuckles adventure. Let the anti-heroes give us a reason to give a darn again.

There were some points in the video where I don't think I saw Shadow hold a gun. If my eyes were correct, then the following could be true:

+ You CAN choose to be "Evil" or "Good" (I doubt it, even though it looks like that's how it'll be) and the Evil Shadow uses a gun throughout the game.

+ You will not use the gun till later in the game.

+ The gun isn't always in the hand of Shadow. Sometimes it might be safely stored with a belt or something.

With a Knuckles spin-off, to reply to your text again, of course emeralds will be involved.

In fact, the game could really tell everything about the emeralds, and have a lot involved with the use of them. And not just emeralds, but Super Emeralds, and the use of the Master Emerald's own energy.

I see a LOT of potiental for a Knuckles spin-off ...

Please use the edit button; we don't like double-posting.

On a sidenote, welcome.

Deus of Design, you rock. I value your opinion and your idea of just waiting and seeing what the game is like, something not everyone appears to prefer doing.

Personally, I've got nothing left to say in this thread. I'm going to wait for the game, play it and THEN present my opinions. Until then, so long. ^^

I understand that waiting for a game before judging it is always the right idea, however that movie is just Sonic Heroes without the extra characters and with a gun, graphically it's identical, the gameplay looks the same, the bouncing off of robots is the same, the levels look akin to alot of the stages you see in SA2 and Sonic Heroes.

From that video I can confidentally say that they are using Sonic Heroes engine and just working a new game from it, even using the same Shadow model with an extra bit which looks so alien that you can see that the model was never designed to factor it in.

It's just cheap as heck. SA2 deviated majorly from SA1's style and physics, everything was redesigned. Sonic Heroes was similar to SA2 but too unique to call a copy. That video is Sonic Heroes without extra characters and with a gun. It is, you can see it.

It's sheer laziness for them to do that, and it'll be the first time in a long time that Sega have gone two games in a row without altering the system.

As crazy as the idea of Shadow having a gun may seem and the gameplay style being similar to Heroes design without all the Teams and Shadow with a gun I won't pass any judgement until I actually get a chance to play the game myself.

From the looks of things, it's still in it's early development. Perhaps they can still change the design of this game while they still can. A bit of wishful thinking. Really, I have no problem if it plays like anyother Sonic game, as long as they get it right this time.

Sonic 2 pretty much played like Sonic 1 with a few added editions, having the option of playing as Super Sonic, for example. No one complained, because it added on to the original formula and made it even better. Hopefully they can do this again in their latest game.

So for now I think I'll stay neutral.

Since almost everyone is hating the idea of this game it would make a great irony if it did turn out good in the end. It would be the exact opposite of Sonic Heroes. XP

You know, I don't think I would put it past Shadow to use a gun. It seems to fit with his psychotic, self-righteous nature

Please give evidence that Shadow is psychotic. As far as I can see, he isn't. He's an emotionally frail little kitten in a highly destructive body, without inclination toward using his powers for destructive purposes.

From the looks of things, it's still in it's early development. Perhaps they can still change the design of this game while they still can.

They have to have it produced and distributed within 9 months. I'd say they're pretty late in development now, at least as far in development as Heroes was this time two years ago, and there are very very few differences between the E3 Demo and the final release, besides lack of voices.

I tell you what though. If Sega do something that they've never done before, which is iron out the bugs in a crappy game engine (ie, when they updated SA1/2), I'll praise the game. It's that simple.

If they iron out the flaws in Heroes' engine, they have my blessings to re-use it.

Quote from Craig Bayfield:

---

I tell you what though. If Sega do something that they've never done before, which is iron out the bugs in a crappy game engine (ie, when they updated SA1/2), I'll praise the game. It's that simple.

If they iron out the flaws in Heroes' engine, they have my blessings to re-use it.

---

I would certainly agree there (regardless on the game) but, correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Heroes's game engine an update on SA2's engine or is it a complete new engine for Heroes?

I withhold judgement on this game. Lately, many games that have received a poor appraisal in the beginning ended up being good games after release (note: there are a few exeptions here and there).

You know, I don't think I would put it past Shadow to use a gun. It seems to fit with his psychotic, self-righteous nature

Please give evidence that Shadow is psychotic. As far as I can see, he isn't. He's an emotionally frail little kitten in a highly destructive body, without inclination toward using his powers for destructive purposes.

Shadow's hardly sane, though, and he's gone through no less than three mood changes in three games. In SA2, he was vicious, vengeful, ruthless with just a touch of the sadistic about him, and the only reason he stopped was because Amy triggered his failsafe. And then he went and tried to kill himself.

In Heroes, he was determined, but his amnesia left him incredibly vulnerable. By time Battle takes place, Shadow has regained his memories, and he's learned about the entirety of what Project: Shadow entailed. He's almost in a state of mourning, and his determination is back in a different form. He's still slightly suicidal and obsessed with his own destruction.

If this game takes place after Battle, it's highly possible that Shadow has again had a change of mind, and decided (quite rightly) that GUN were the ones who have wronged him, and therefore, he's going to bring them down.

The method of how he does so, however, might be the thing that changes the gameplay.

((and as for the Chaos-beasties, this is the game that has a 30-foot long lizard. Think about i

correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Heroes's game engine an update on SA2's engine or is it a complete new engine for Heroes?

I'm not sure on that, but regardless. Sonic Heroes is the only Sonic game which they have a working engine for on the PS2, which this game is heavily rumoured to be coming out on.

If they took the time and effort to make Sonic Adventure 2 compatible with the PS2, they would have released it.

Quote:

---

He's an emotionally frail little kitten in a highly destructive body, without inclination toward using his powers for destructive purposes.

---

Maybe that's why he chooses to use firearms: he's afraid to utilize his own powers. Or at least that's how he's being portrayed now.

Regardless, it still doesn't make sense-- seeing him unleash that Chaos bomb negates that little theory to some degree. Perhaps... perhaps it ties into the "Hero", "Villain" choice: the more he relies on his own powers, the more he becomes that "Weapon of War" he's so against in Battle. As if tapping his own strengths could potentially alter his thinking, making him more dangerous.

Is there really any justification for the gun, though? Huh.

I'd give enough benefit of doubt to say it'll be justified, even in an unsatisfying manner.

Nothing can really be said for certain until we know what's going on with the Sonic Heroes/Sonic Battle Shadow's, they might be the same, they might be different, it might be ignored completely. We'll not know until the game comes out.

Infact, just thinking of all the juicy plots being tied up makes me remember that I don't give a damn about gameplay and enjoyed Shadow's involvement in Sonic Battle, but not his character, just the plots which were born of him.

...damn it...

I want this game now!

Shadow appeared to be weak and appeared to be dating Rouge in Battle, so it looks like she's gone off Knuckles and he's gone off Sonic.

I must get round to fighting Shadow's level again.

I still have the nagging feeling it's all a clever hoax though.

Come to think of it, this could be set in between Sonic Heroes and Battle, if it were, it could explain how he got some of his memories back or be the reasoning behind the gun. Just a thought.

For the upteenth time

SEGA UNVEILED THIS AT THE "WALK OF GAME" AWARD CEREMONY LAST WEEK! IT IS NOT A HOAX.

Also, there is nothing in Sonic Battle which implies Rouge and Shadow, that's just wishful thinking. He was just unconcious and Rouge helped him back to his feet.

*shrugs*

You're probably right Craig, I mean why would a hot guy like shadow go for a vain whore like Rouge?

*anonymous people start to beat Harley*

Ow! Stop that! I mean, yeah, I just didn't read those earlier posts, either that or I forgot what they said.

Quote:

---

SEGA UNVEILED THIS AT THE "WALK OF GAME" AWARD CEREMONY LAST WEEK! IT IS NOT A HOAX.

---

But what if Sega were the ones that decided to do this as a hoax? It'd make just as much sense as the game itself. 😛

Shadow was staying at Club Rouge in Night Babylon for at least some part of the game, as Rouge returns there, and says "Shadow, I'm home! ...must be still sleeping" when he doesn't reply. They may not have been dating, but they'd almost certainly kept in touch after Heroes.

That'd be one hell of a hoax. Kind of the type that gives heart attacks when the jump out and yell SUPRISE!!!!!!!!!!!!111

This makes me wonder - there must be somebody at SEGA who goes on the web and looks at all the usual Sonic digs and gauges general opinion. I mean, the general response to this announcement has been highly volatile, to say the least - so much so that somebody at SEGA must have noticed. Right?

Right?

Yeah, but the Sonic fandom are like the little Boy who cried "CRAP!", we hate things so often, I doubt they listen when we whine anymore

But this is overwhelming, though. They must have noticed that the only person who is going to buy this is Shadowglass?

Well, the only person from the fanbase. Which is a nagging fear.

I'd buy it to see how it is. I want to be a fair judge of it anyway...besides it looks cartoony and cartoony shooters are great... (See Rachet and Clank 3)

Quote:

---

Shadow was staying at Club Rouge in Night Babylon for at least some part of the game, as Rouge returns there, and says "Shadow, I'm home! ...must be still sleeping" when he doesn't reply. They may not have been dating, but they'd almost certainly kept in touch after Heroes.

---

That is explained in Shadow's story. Shadow is knocked unconscious so Rouge carries him to her place to rest up.

Quote:

---

For one thing, I have been reading quite a bit of responses on the subject of "rip-offs".

Before I talk about why Sonic Team may be doing a Shadow + Gun spin-off, and why a lot of you aren't really happy about all of this, I just have to take a little moment to correct this ...

It is not a so called "rip-off", it is called a TREND. Which, by definition, is something that basically follows a line and sometimes makes a move. For example, aqueducts!

These are water pipes, right? Well, perhaps that this type of matter helped us make other common types of pipes like sewer pipes! The same thing comes into play here, and you will see a lot of trends in the Gaming Industry. From Mario, we have Sonic! Without Mario, would we have Sonic? To tell you the truth, probably not.

SEGA developed this blue-hedgehog to fight against Mario, well, according to this article.

Would we have the games you held up with, like Jak or such and such without Sonic? Who knows, maybe not!

---

Whilst Sonic was made to compete with Mario the final product did so in very original and defining ways. Sonic didn't stand on the back of current trends so much as it created its own trends to compete with those trends. Shadow the Hedgehog is just following the latest trend by tacking on a gun.

Quote:

---

Now, we all know, as well as I, that the majority, or pratically all Sonic games, are rated "E" for everyone, right? Well, usually these "E" games may seem kiddy to people like me. (To be honest, I could not stand some aspects on Sonic Heroes, like how Charmy acted, anyone with me?).

Well, these guys want to try some more new stuff (not really new, they did past spin-offs like Sonic R, Knuckles Chaotix, etc), and they also want to really get other types of markets into the hedgehog's universe. They are starting to get the picture that they need to cut a lot of things, and really bring it all up a notch. (I hope they are, because the competition is about flushing out the hedgehog).

---

The best games truly were "E" for "Everyone", some of the newer ones seem to lean towards "E" for "Children". It's more important to get the series back to GREAT games (not mediocre and poor like the more recent ones) that appeal to EVERYONE (not just one particular age group).

Quote:

---

So, what they have here is a game that targets the older market, hopefully making things "cool" to all the guys like me again with the Sonic series. They bring out a sick game with a sick creature we all call Shadow, and they upgrade him with, uh-oh cover your children's eyes, a GUN!

This is pratically the biggest twist ever to the Sonic universe. Who expected any of the characters to wield a realistic (not really) weapon that parents stress their children to stay away from or bam-bam they're dead!?

---

Blatant shock value is the cheap and easy way out. I'd rather play a good game rather than one that was designed from shock value upwards. It's immature, simple-minded, and short-sighted. Enough of the entertainment industry already revolves around the lowest common denomenator. Children's series should be children's series, all ages series should be all ages series, adult series should be adult series. Nobody would dream of making a Godfather film for children.

If Sonic has to be badass and T+ to appeal to some people then they should move on and look elsewhere. Having children's Sonic games, T+ Sonic games and maybe even a few *gasp* all ages Sonic games dilutes and damages the identity of the series. Sonic had a strong identity as a great all ages series, it's something that should never be compromised.

Marvel and DC have done this a lot with their super hero licenses and it has been very damaging for them. They've been trying to appeal more and more to existing older fans who've decided that they want all ages series to "mature" with them and sales have dwindled as they fail to bring in any young readers. Marvel and DC have desparately been trying to appeal to the audience they did initially again with projects such as Marvel Age. They are becoming slowly building successes but Marvel wouldn't even have to be struggling uphill like they are doing if they hadn't abandoned the audience in the first place to appeal to the older fans with shock value.

All ages and children's series should concentrate on the 5 year turnover audience - people get into a series when they're young, stick around for 5 years or so and then most of them move on to something more "mature", this loss of audience is no problem though as a new wave will take their place. This is why Archie Comics sell better than Marvel and DC do nowadays.

I was willing to buy a Shadow-centered game before anything like this came out. And after seeing the video, I'd have to say ShTH is about as far away from Sonic Heroes as you can get. Bonus.

-Shakudo-

Wow, so there's actually people in existance who aren't bashing what's not even out yet. (At least people PLAYED Heroes before passing judgement...).

After watching the trailers, I don't see what's to get so uptight about. The gameplay looks decent; just a bit different. No idea what to think about the gun, but it could work, I suppose.

While I wouldn't mind a 'Ratchet & Clank'-style of gameplay, chances are we won't see it in a Sonic game :/

Shadow with a gun.

.....

I'm actually not surprised. Shadow is a dark and mysterious character, and ts not like this is the first time weaponry has been used in the Sonic games. Look at SA2.

Maybe this is the end of 2005 game that was mentioned...?

I'm actually looking forward to the game. The Gameplay indeed looks good, I guess the gun could work as a secondary attack (the homing attack being the primary one), and it looks from the trailer that there will be as much focus on the story as the "adventure" games.
Also, this will be the first Sonic Game with only one playable character since...when? At least, it looks like there will only be one playable character...

Quote:

---

But this is overwhelming, though. They must have noticed that the only person who is going to buy this is Shadowglass?

---

Grow up and get however yourself Spontaneous. If you can't be bothered to acknowledge the large number of intelligent Shadow fans, or the fact that SEVERAL people on this forum have mentioned that they will either buy the game, or reserve judgment until it comes closer to release, then your snarky remarks are a wast of time. Yes, there has been a knee-jerk reaction, but there have been plenty of positive responses as well.

If every franchise gave up because of initial fan-boy criticism, we'd have no Star Wars prequels, no Windwaker, and the Kingdom Hearts.

Personally, I like the look of it. The gun seems to suit Shadow in a way. Also, the game's original, and the only other non-evil character who a gun could really go with a gun is Rouge, and I doubt many people would want a Rouge spin-off.

I'll try and keep an open mind, though i feel cheated that im not getting a sonic game and that they took the ridiculous idea of putting a gun as a main weapon in a sonic game.

Frankly, I think this might have potential, the way it shows shadow as either a villain or a hero, maybe it'll have the same kind of consequences like fable, with whether u decide how shadow will be...

Well, I doubt it'll share Fable's 'good or evil' element (thought that would be pretty sweet). But at least it looks like the [almost] standard Sonic fare.

And hopefully the player will have a choice between blasting away and using old-school techniques like spin-dashing. From the looks of the trailer, that appears to be the case so far.

Or better yet, a combination of attacks would be fun. Imagine, homing-attacking an enemy, bouncing up above it, and finishing it off with a rain of bullets.

...and I pray that the somersault's been dumped...

About the 'Don't knock it until you've tried it' nonsense:

Excretion - You wouldn't want to eat it, but have you ever tried it before?

Yeah, but in excretion's case, there probably WERE people who've tried it before. How else do you think we know it's bad?

And Spon, there are TONS of people interested in this... just not around here, the GHZ, SFGHQ, SRB2... in fact, most of them were at GameFAQs, actually, so it's not saying much. But honestly, there are about as many of them THERE that want the game as there are those I've seen who think it won't be good, myself included.

The GHZ? Is that really really true?
Because I remember something about tomb stones, a lot of cursing, and somebody getting banned for listening to Muse. Looking over the thread, actually - not one person has expressed anticipation - oh except for one person, but it turned out to be a joke. CulT seemed to hate it all over too.

And Gamefaqs, just... let's not go that way.

And the hate for excretion is genetic, I assure you. Just like the hate for this. So all people who like it are mutants. Yeah.

Reread what I wrote, and you'll notice a "not" in there. As in, people at The GHZ aren't thrilled. And no "edited" thing, either.

And stop playing around with the people who want to like the game. As far as I can tell, it isn't appreciated.

Quote:

---

And Spon, there are TONS of people interested in this... just not around here, the GHZ, SFGHQ, SRB2... in fact, most of them were at GameFAQs, actually, so it's not saying much.

---

Hang on, what I get from that is that some people from those groups like the idea. It's not exactly the most consistent sentence in the world. But hey, mistakes happen.

And yeah. I'll stop with the happyslapping.