I'm sorry if this has posted before, but after replaying the Jak games after a long time, it seems Sega Studio's just ripped off Jak 2 and 3 and made it more Sonicy for Shadow. The similarities seemed to close just to be a concidence.
-"Badass", rebellious heroes
-Both have a light and Dark forms, Jak executing his forms much better than Shadow
-The transition from hsppy, typical platformers to dark, apocolyptic dystopias with weapons and vehicles.
-Both had to fight a menacing alien race that threaten to destroy life on the planet.
-Both were mysterious heroes which both games focused on their pasts.
-Both were genetically egineed(But Shadow came out in 2001 with SA2 so that goes to him)
-Both were abused by a overzealous military leader.
With that said, Both Jak games were released BEFORE Shadow the Hedgehog. And Jak executed the all the ideas enomously, better than Shadow did. I know the series has it cases of "homages" (particulary to DBZ), but Shadow seemed to muck up the Jak ideas and made a game out of it.I'm sorry if this has posted before or disscussed but wanted to express the similarites of the games.
Because the Jak series invented every single one of those concepts.
What Toby is trying to say is that he doubts the Jak series defined those tropes.
~Tobe
Wasn't that awful Prince of Persia: Warrior Within game released before Jak 2? Shadow's game was just a quick and dirty cash-in that was inspired by one of the more annoying trend of the last generation of gaming: "The GTA3-clone". Likewise, Jak 2 was also inspired by it while adding "generic-rage"(C)-- one of the many reasons why I find it terrible compared to the original game.
Well Shadow is an incredibly common trope, but there are 2 characters that come to mind immediately: Vegeta and Bass. Bass is much cooler by a mile, though, because he doesn't have any ridiculous backstory, absurd switching motivations, or clone gameplay. The one main game in which he was playable, he actually had surprisingly different moves that fit just right into the game while being balanced.
I don't think any particular source is necessary for an evil twin, because it's been done so many times. SA2 killed off Shadow in a very contrived way, and he was probably a one-shot before his sudden popularity.
Yea i'm almost positively convinced 100% that Shadow was meant to be only in SA2. I'm pretty sure ST had no idea his popularity would escalate to such a high level. Darn us fanboys and fangirls. lol
But bless ST for bringing him back.
Again and again and again...
"Bless"? Yeah riiight. Every game (excluding SA2 and Sonic Battle) Shadow's been in seems to polarize the fanbase, get either mixed or dissapoiting reviews, and has some awful, convoluted story. He's been an something of cancer of the series and his "OMG! CRITIKZ SUX!!! SHADOW'S GAME IS AWEZOMEZ!!" fanboys don't help the Sonic franchise either. !
I also like to say that I like PoP:WW and Jak 2. I've played The Precusor Legacy and it was nothing special.
Also PoP:WW had way better combat than the first and Jak 2 combined many genres(kind of like Sonic) and made it fun. Not trying to start an argument, but I like those games. And don't write me off as a GTA, Mature-rated fanboy cause I'm not.
I can argue the reasons why the genre mixing as well as the tone of the Jak 2 made me vehemently despise the game and killed the franchise for me when I learned Jak 3 was more of the same, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.
The genre mixing and tone saved Jak from the many Mario 64 clones between 1996-2001. It was also refreshing to see a platformer so dark and angry from the cute fuzzy characters we get every year but that's another argument in another forrum.
But it's true Shadow isn't the most original character ever. I actually trace the modern brooding, loner badass stock character to Batman. Shadow is a rip off of Bass, who's a rip off of Vegeta, who's a evil, space prince rip off Batman, am I right?
Amy Henning from Legacy of Kain fame might have had something to do with Jak's turn. But I doubt ST saw those games and said "THAT'S WHAT IT NEEDS TO BE!" the whoel set up is pretty cliche' and archetypal
Who's Amy Henning? What does she has to do with Jak?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Bless"? Yeah riiight. Every game (excluding SA2 and Sonic Battle) Shadow's been in seems to polarize the fanbase, get either mixed or dissapoiting reviews, and has some awful, convoluted story. He's been an something of cancer of the series and his "OMG! CRITIKZ SUX!!! SHADOW'S GAME IS AWEZOMEZ!!" fanboys don't help the Sonic franchise either. !
Shadow's has been a awesome addition to the franchise, and I don't care if his game sucks, he's has the most dpeht and development of any Sonic character.....ever/
He's not cancer to the series, he's a cure to on going repetitve and un original game styles and nature of Sonic games.
He's adds something new to the table, and I really think he's something this sereis needs of the Sonic Series needs veriaty or substance.
Anyway Shadow's awesome and full of win, if he's cliche than so is the rest, he's an awesome clice at that.
Face purists don't like change, and this is one of the many reason Sonic is un popular.
You can't stand a frucking opinion on Sonic's failure, than you truly fail.
Veckums, and other haters, you all fail, because Sonic @#%$ is fail.
Oh and Shadow is the coolest character in the franchise.
Believe it!!!!
Well Shadow is an incredibly common trope, but there are 2 characters that come to mind immediately: Vegeta and Bass. Bass is much cooler by a mile, though, because he doesn't have any ridiculous backstory, absurd switching motivations, or clone gameplay. The one main game in which he was playable, he actually had surprisingly different moves that fit just right into the game while being balanced.
I don't think any particular source is necessary for an evil twin, because it's been done so many times. SA2 killed off Shadow in a very contrived way, and he was probably a one-shot before his sudden popularity.
Bass wasn't all that special he was still a clone of megaman so your statement contidicts that.
Shadow had it all, great backstory, awesome depht and development, and a true rivalry with Sonic in SA2, he was a dark thesis to Sonic himself, and he had human like flaws and struggle with himself emotionally, he was without a doubt the one of the most sympethetic game characters ever.
I really don't know why you're overly biased and wrong about Shadow's character being overdone, thats simply not the case since Shadow is one unique anti hero with multi media like backround storys and brand new move sets compared to Sonic's.
I guess the purist fanboy gets to your head, thats why you can't seem to accept Shadow or any character before big.
I have to say this board is purist central for Sonic fans.
So what if Shadow came from Bass or Vegeta, at least he presented differently, and is more charismatic than the two.
Quote:
Anyway Shadow's awesome and full of win, if he's cliche than so is the rest, he's an awesome clice at that.
Are you saying that Shadow is a cure for Sonic being Sonic?
As for the rest of your post, Shadow is one of many reasons why Sonic is failing, he's become nothing more than a character added for fanboys, has nothing original about him, and is basically taking the roles and abilities of other characters in the franchise. All he adds is a more "mature" tone, and when discussing blue, sound barrier breaking hedgehogs, that tone feels out of place.
Are you saying that Shadow is a cure for Sonic being Sonic?
As for the rest of your post, Shadow is one of many reasons why Sonic is failing, he's become nothing more than a character added for fanboys, has nothing original about him, and is basically taking the roles and abilities of other characters in the franchise. All he adds is a more "mature" tone, and when discussing blue, sound barrier breaking hedgehogs, that tone feels out of place.
Shadow is more original than Tails and Knuckles development wise, plus isn't Sonic and others are like fanboy fanservice too?
Sonic is failing because of Sonic and the gameplay.
Shadow is the reason people still pick up Sonic games.
And last I check mature tones are a good thing.
Oh and Shadow and Sonic have the best moments in games, ever.
The majority of Sonic Stadium posters and other fan sites agree with this.
Shadow's a blessing.
Where do they keep coming from?
Joeman12, please use the edit button rather than adding a new reply.
We once had one like you who posted 10 posts in a row and then he turned out to be like Jade Goody. Ahhh, Shadowshomeboy17.
I don't think Shadow was ever meant to be one shot character who was only supposed to appear in SA2. I was more surprised to see Big pop up than Shadow in Heroes.
I think the problem is with, not just Shadow, but with the current people in charge of storyline. They just seem to take it too seriously. Its a version of Earth where a 4 foot tall talking blue hedgehog who runs very fast exists. Its not some bloody Final Fantasy. 🙁
Also Toby:
Quote:
Where do they keep coming from?
Quote:
The majority of Sonic Stadium posters and other fan sites agree with this.
...
Quote:
The majority of Sonic Stadium posters
...
Quote:
Sonic Stadium
...
Sonic Stadium, I must have skimmed over that. It makes perfect sense now.
And they are the very reason why Shadow is one of the cancers of this series. 
Shadow's role model is James Dean...though I never made the connection between Jak and Shadow...
Shadow actually has a few "role models". Jak and James Dean are one of the few.
"Shadow's has been a awesome addition to the franchise, and I don't care if his game sucks, he's has the most dpeht and development of any Sonic character.....ever/"
He's been a terrible addition to the franchise BECAUSE of his backstory and development. Sure his backstory was intersting in SA2, the only 3D appearance of Shadow I like. However, since Sega seems to want to throw it at us in every frickin game with Shadow's incessant whining, it's gotten annoying. What was one of the many bad points of the Shadow game was Shadow's constant crying. Shadow supposed to be the ultimate lifeform and he's whines in every scene about not knowing his past. It's deep the first time, but after the 476,890th time it's like "Stop being emo and ick ass!" I hate anti-hereos like that. It's like Vegeta, constantly crying about Goku.
"He's not cancer to the series, he's a cure to on going repetitve and un original game styles and nature of Sonic games."
Because the Shadow game was great example of originality. Aliens, guns, and vehicles. Oh yeah, those things have never been in a game, ever. Shadow's been underminding Sonic Team's creativity since he appeared. Shadow, himself, is unoriginal. Ooh! A dark, tormented version of the hero, I've never seen that before!
"Face purists don't like change, and this is one of the many reason Sonic is un popular.
You can't stand a frucking opinion on Sonic's failure, than you truly fail.
Veckums, and other haters, you all fail, because Sonic @#%$ is fail."
I don't mind change. It's just that Sega's been changing everything that was right with franchise ad refused to change what was wrong with the SA games. That to me is why Sonic's failing. Shadow, however, is one of the nails to the soon to be ready coffin for Sonic
Where was this guy when Sonic Cult was doing their award nominations for Shadow fanboy of the month?
Anyway, Shadow's problem is simply that he's overused.
Personally, Shadow worked for SA2. It was perfectly understandable why he was angsty then. I know I'd be angsty if the only person who cared for me was killed in front of me. His story and his death worked for that game.
But Sonic Team, in all their infinite "wisdom", decided to bring him back and shoehorn him into every other game. As of now, Shadow is little more than a Cloud wannabe.
Had Shadow been confined to SA2, much like Gamma was confined to SA1, I'm pretty certain that there wouldn't be half as much hostility toward him as there is now.
Were you talking to me with the "Shadow fanboy" comment? Or was that directed at Joeman? I couldn't tell if that was sarcasm.
I actually like Shadow in SA2. They focused or his arrogance than his crying. And he made a great sacrificial, tragic hero. After that.... *shudders*
It's not that he's overused, he's just used in the wrong context.
I can safely say that there are two games where I'm actually happy Shads made an appearance, and that's Sonic Battle, and Sonic Riders.
In Sonic Battle, he was one of the playable main characters, crucial to the story line, but unlike the other games which starred him, it didn't go off and focus solely on him, it tried to remain true to Emerl.
As for Sonic Riders, I'm glad he wasn't involved in the storyline, but he was fun to act as in the multiplayer mode, because I sure as hell wasn't gonna be Sonic or Jet when there was a Shadow to choose. A Shadow with rocket skates. <3
Quote:
And last I check mature tones are a good thing.
lol Loco Roco kthnxbai
Seriously, take a LONG, hard look at what you're saying. This is a series about a 4 foot nothing, anthropomorphic bright blue hedgehog who can run at the speed of sound, collects rings to protect himself, frees small cute fuzzy animals from robots designed by an overweight man with a moustache that would put Dali to shame...
...And you want mature? I'm afraid you're in the wrong series sonny Jim.
Shadow needs to worry less about being a 'Sonic Hero' and needs to become 'An Hero'. he serves noe purpose now. he was angsty about his past and the whole Arc/Maria thing that surrounded him...all thats over with now. He needs to hibernate or something.
If there's one more "mature" scene in a Sonic game, I need it to be Shadow killing himself.
