Hey, don't worry about scaring me off with disagreements. I don't see anything wrong with it.

Anyways, the level designs. Well, they were just a lot more vast and pretty. Like, it took the whole Sonic Adventure 1 formula to the next level. Like, remember first playing Sonic Adventure? Running from the whale in Emerald Coast. Running down the wall, in Speed Highway? Changing the water levels and riding the giant snake in Lost World? The detailed, realistic, yet fantasy-like backgrounds? Ever since Sonic Adventure, Sega set at least for me, a new standard on level designs. And nothing since Sonic Adventure came even remotely close to even touching that standard. But finally Sonic 2k6 comes out, and finally, they not only meet that standard, but completely blow it away. Sure it wasn't as bright, cheery as your average Sonic game, but it was vast, detailed, and huge.

Just take a look at Crisis City: (and yes, I'll admit, all the levels are divided into three segments. The loading time between them is slow, but it was never a bother. It's a new level segment, so I don't feel like I was being cut off by the loading in between)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHVNWN9SXEg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHVNWN9SXEg

I'm sorry, but no other 3D Sonic game compares in my book. I'd take it any day over "ROLLING AROUND AT THE SPEED OF SOUND!" through City Escape. Or the "WOW MY HEAD'S SPINNING!" Sonic Heroes. It really seemed like they were really taking Sonic into the next gen with at least the level design and gameplay. But the vast majority hated it. All but one of my personal friends hated it as well. So I guess majority rules, and Sega isn't gonna make another game like it, which I see as a sad defeat.

You posted that link twice, mate.

I'm sorry, but no other 3D Sonic game compares in my book. I'd take it any day over "ROLLING AROUND AT THE SPEED OF SOUND!" through City Escape.

Whoa, man. Back off. That's my song, right there.

It really seemed like they were really taking Sonic into the next gen with at least the level design and gameplay. But the vast majority hated it.

Well, it looked pretty, sure, and some of the set pieces in the game were attractive, if not quite Next-Gen quality visually, but it all comes down to what you said: level design and gameplay. The game is broken. Around every corner it reminds us of this. The controls are broken; think back to how tight and responsive SA1's controls felt. I felt like I could go anywhere, do anything, instead of holding desperately to the optimal course so the game throw you into whatever cheap untested death is next.

The plot, well, I could see why they could go in that direction. It really is a bigger, grander continuation of the style the previous games had dipped into. But it is also broken, not polished and cared for. They mean for Eggman to finally be taken seriously to fight the cartoon-y buffoon he'd become since Heroes, but ended up more incompetent and pointless as ever. And they just defecate all over the Rush series by daring to use Blaze.

You know, this was meant to be a long discussion, but I don't have time, so, regard each of my points as an observation. =F

Correct me, Silv, if I'm misinterpreting your point, but it seems that you're equating "vast, detailed, and huge" with good level design. While that can be true, such as the example you cited with Lost World, the two don't necessarily seem tantamount.

As an instance, I submit Sonic Heroes. Sure, the first few levels were decent. But as the game wears on, the levels, though quite sizable, also seem to become repetitious within themselves. Egg Fleet looks like they made one level and then did a quick copy-paste to extend its length. There was no particular reason for that, and that smacks of either a rush job or inordinate laziness. Sonic '06's Aquatic Base, huge as it was, seemed to do much the same thing. Let's face it; you've been in one big watery room full of enemies and odd bubbles that attract your homing attack, you've been in them all. I disagree with some notion that bigger is ipso facto better, but I acknowledge that it comes down to a matter of opinion.

The only other thing I'd ask you to clarify was this:

Since I saw the opening animation of Sonic CD, I always longed for a Sonic game where you can do...well, all that cool stuff in the game. And Sonic 06 really seemed to finally be the game to touch those grounds.

To what kind of stuff do you specifically refer? Sonic '06's intro for Sonic had him rocketing around between Robotnik's robots like a classic pinball, capped by him gently tipping a robot over with a mere tap of his foot. Never once do we see anything of the kind in the game. Shadow's intro had him...well, it looked like Chaos Control, but we're given no reason to believe he had an Emerald with him to perform that bizarre teleportation technique to infiltrate White Acropolis. And in his intro, Silver was simply floating in the skies of Crisis City indefinitely, in direct opposition to the game's mechanics. On the other hand, Sonic Unleashed's most egregious violation of this idea was when he ran circles around one robot in the introduction.

I have little doubt we're probably going to disagree, for I am one of those persons who played, and indeed enjoyed, the WiiS2 version of Unleashed, but I am glad to see a new member here demonstrating thoughtfulness. Hope you stick around for more lively debate.

Lol this is how I'd have fixed the werehog stages.

A. Don't actually give him stages. I think It would have been more interesting to give the werehog free reign inside the hub worlds and different story like objectives would take place there. This would shorten the time you'd have to play as werehog substantially. I guess, given Eggmanland's length. You'd still need to play the were hog portion of the level there.

B. When I say free reign I literally mean free reign. every roof top, every alley way. Even inside every house. No designated claw holds or swing places. Those are annoying. I want to be able to cling, climb, swing, jump off of every available surface. Just Spider Man the whole thing.

C. Nack the Weasel. Yeah I know this is pointless fan wank. But what if Nack wanted to bag himself an evil mythical beast of legend, that the citizens of one of the countries recognizes from their ancient texts, which just HAPPENS to look like the a big blue werehog?

I don't get why you want ST to resurrect old 'dead' characters like Fang, when they barely do a good job with the cast they have now.

Do you really want your happy nostalgia-clouded memories to be crapped on?

Ok seriously. I don't get why you're so negative all the time. I'm only speaking out of wishful thinking. I like Nack and that's all there really is to it. I recognize the sheer unlikely hood of him ever returning. What enjoyment do you get taking dumps on other people's opinions?

Here I am, just oblivious to the evils of liking Nack the Weasel. Saying what I want to say and what I think. And then here you come swooping in like some vulture and stating in all your infinite knowledge that I'M BLINDED by the nostalgia goggles! (Which I can confidently say I'm not) Besides that, Nostalgia is possibly a large part of what keeps people in South Island in the first place so whats your problem?

I'm not being negative, I'm being realistic since I don't really have that much faith in ST.

But if my comments offended you(I didn't think I was being that harsh), then I apologize.

...

Well, I really dont think she was trying to offend you as that comment wouldn't exactly offend me. I sort of agree with her. They brought back Nack / Fang then Sega would go on with their "Quick! I don't give a crap if its a good game, just get it out by Christmas so that clueless parents can buy it for their kids as a last minute Christmas gift!" ways, and mess Nack / Fang up and ruin your good memories of the character.

Seeing as where Sonic is now, I dont think he has much hope of ever regaining his greatness really ever again.

What I think ended Sonic is Sonic Adventure. They just felt for some reason that since they were changing from 2-D games to 3-D games that they had to change every other aspect of the game, too. Make Dr. Robotnik Eggman, add a bunch of characters, change a bunch of character designs, change the gameplay, and add gimmicks and styles that are unique for every game. The last part is one of the worst, because then Sega became the way I said earlier (Quick! I don't give a crap if its a good game, just get it out by Christmas so that clueless parents can buy it for their kids as a last minute Christmas gift!) and while some of the gimmicks might have been a slightly good idea, Sega's constant rush to get games out made the gimmicks more cheesy, and at most the opposite of well executed.

Gimmicks:

Sonic Adventure: New styles of gameplay, over all new look, new characters, almost new everything...
Sonic Adventure 2: Ok, maybe not much, but the same as SA.
Sonic Heroes: Controlling 3 characters at once.
Shadow the Hedgehog: The use of guns and vehicles.
Sonic Rush / Sonic Rush Adventure: Interesting levels that incorporate sidescrolling with certain 3-D areas and 3-D graphics.
Sonic the Hedgehog (06): Silvers gameplay
The Entire Storybook Series so far and to come: Just being on the Wii!
Sonic Shuffle: Its... kind of a... board game.

Am I forgetting something?

The only other thing I'd ask you to clarify was this:

Since I saw the opening animation of Sonic CD, I always longed for a Sonic game where you can do...well, all that cool stuff in the game. And Sonic 06 really seemed to finally be the game to touch those grounds.

To what kind of stuff do you specifically refer? Sonic '06's intro for Sonic had him rocketing around between Robotnik's robots like a classic pinball, capped by him gently tipping a robot over with a mere tap of his foot. Never once do we see anything of the kind in the game. Shadow's intro had him...well, it looked like Chaos Control, but we're given no reason to believe he had an Emerald with him to perform that bizarre teleportation technique to infiltrate White Acropolis. And in his intro, Silver was simply floating in the skies of Crisis City indefinitely, in direct opposition to the game's mechanics. On the other hand, Sonic Unleashed's most egregious violation of this idea was when he ran circles around one robot in the introduction.

I sense a bit of confusion in that statement. When comparing Sonic 06 to the Sonic CD intro, I wasn't talking about the intros in Sonic 06, but rather the gameplay. The Sonic CD intro seemed to show Sonic in all his glory. For example, the avalanche of rocks crashing down on him. Sonic gracefully hopping from one fragment to the other, and drilling his way through the massive boulder crashing down on him, all to reach his destination above. Yeah, nowadays, we see lots of cartoon characters doing stuff like that, but for its time, and as a kid, I found it extremely impressive. But I always thought, how cool it would be if we could pull stunts like that in-game. Sonic 06 was that game. My references being the videos I put in my last post. It all just emulated that sense of agility. Blasting through explosions, hopping several rails, platforming through over a tricky gap, homing attack- eh...ing, your way through villains... yes, each individual piece has been done before in previous Sonic games, but never has it been strung together so well, in a manner where if you can time every single step of the level so perfectly, it becomes graceful.

Previous titles failed to deliver such an experience. Sonic Heroes being the best example. Yes, it had those elements of Sonic 06, but it was just very a very drawn out and choppy experience. For example, in every level, I find myself going through a running space as Sonic. And there really is no obstacles. An occassional loop here and there, but it really just seems like a straight path of nothing. Then you hit a wall. You stop, switch to Tails, slowly fly over the space, drop into an area heavily filled with bots(and get hit with a projectile on the way down), switch to Knuckles, and mindlessly brawl for what seems like ten minutes. The switch to Sonic, run in a straight, linear path, and repeat the process. With each level being so mind-numbingly long, and no real cutscenes in between to give that sense of rest and motive, the game overall just feels like work. In fact...that's exactly how it felt to me. I remember wanting to see the new Metal Sonic so badly, but just having such a miserable time playing the game, hoping it would all be worth it in the end. End result: it wasn't.

I didn't have a problem with the controls either. I, along with most reviews of previous games, felt that the controls in the 3D Sonic games have always been too loose. Like, let's not forget Windy Valley in Sonic Adventure, running down those...eh, not quite sure what to call em. It's Sonic's segment of the level that was featured in Tails' version. Where you're just blindly running down these netted slopes that swirl around, with the camera going haywire, constantly changing the direction you need to hold to go forward, and occasionally losing you from not being able to keep up. It just felt a lot smoother in Sonic 06, like I was really in control of Sonic for the first time. I played through the entire game without running into any glitches or camera problems. Though, unlike most whiny reviewers, I never found the camera to be a major problem since SA2. While Sonic 06 has some of its brawl-like moments like stated in Sonic Heroes, the diversity of moves, and diversity of enemies at least kept the combat aspect interesting.

I know exactly what you're saying on the whole, "copy and paste" aspect of Aquatic Base. I did find myself constatnly thinking, "Wait, wasn't I already in this room? Haven't I done this all before?" But that I let slide because that was the only level that really did that. This however, constantly recurred in Sonic Heroes, and somewhat frequently in SA2 and Shadow the Hedgehog. Not so much in SA1, I feel.

Sonic Unleashed however, I don't know. Seemed to take everything that was bad about Sonic and the Secret Rings, and put it into a major title. The side-scrolling parts looked so much better in the trailers. But when I played it, it all just seemed very dull, and lacked the depth of level design seen in Sonic 3&K, Rush... hey, and even Sonic Advance. The whole aspect of speed in grace in Sonic 06 just wasn't there in Sonic Unleashed. Yeah, sure the speed was there, but if you messed up once, it took forever to rebuild your momentum. I fully understand that going through a game the first time is never gonna weild graceful, speedy, S-rank results. But at least in Sonic 06, i t was fairly easy to recover from a slip up. In Sonic Unleashed, you get the speed, that gaming rush, and then walk into a wall(which I'm sorry, the controls were the sloppiest I've seen in any 3D Sonic game, EVER), and then BAM, the fun is over. It was extremely frustrating. The ultimate tease. Like, I didn't think they could ever make a game as bad, and painful to play, as Sonic Heroes. But hey, I guess they were determined.

Sonic Unleashed didn't seem very bad to me. In fact, I enjoyed almost every minute I played of it (except for later Werehog Stages and Eggmanland). It seemed pretty solid. The camera wasn't terrible, and the controls weren't entirely broken for once. Of course, I'm just talking about the 360 version I have.

One gripe I did have about that game was QTE. It was everywhere. I couldn't get away from it for two seconds, and that game was full of them.
Also, it is apparently possible to go too fast. During one part in the Skyscraper Scamper Day, I was boosting along a path in 3D mode when I clipping control had me stuck underneath the stage. Not just once, but twice. It brought back bad memories of Sonic Heroes.

Sonic Heroes was just a complete mess (I'm going by the Gamecube version here). I though I enjoyed it at first, but then I slowly started to get tired of it. Aside from a lot of things already wrong about that game, I actually was playing as one of the teams in the third stage and died while running through a loop. Apparently SEGA never heard of testers or just didn't care. Special stages were a chore. After beating three out of four stories and getting one chaos emerald, I quit. I refused to play another 3D game until something decent came out. That happened to be Sonic Unleashed.

I don't have much to say about Sonic 2k6, as I only played a demo. I really, really, loathed playing that demo. Though from what I had seen about the story, I wasn't missing much, and SEGA had already screwed up a decent and fairly recent character at the time.

Getting back to Unleashed though, I don't think it was as bad as Heroes, but I certainly think it was better. It's just a case of one step forward, two steps back, as another person described it.

EDIT: Oh, Socks, add Sonic Chronicles to that list. Despite being developed by Bioware, it manages to have a broken combat system using Elite Beat Agents-style stuff when performing special moves. Still, I managed to beat that game twice. o.o;

Silv, we have 2 entirely different opinions.

To sum up 2K6, it's a game with a bad, repetitive plot, 2 main characters that Sega seems to have made much better than Sonic, gameplay that can be hard to the point of extreme frustration, long loading times, and finally, a make out scene between a 2 foot hedgehog and a 5 foot woman. Sega will paaay.

And for Sonic Unleashed, I think its not the best game, but has a few redeeming qualities.

Pros:

Sidescrolling on day levels owns.
Earlier Werehog stages are actually kind of fun.
Fast loading times.
A proffessor named Prof. Pickle
Addictive 0.0
Chip is a good sidekick when you want chocolate.

Cons: Prepare yourself.

3-D controls are hard.
Takes a long time to rebuild momentum after hitting a wall.
Wierd camera control.
An annoying little sidekick that turns everything into a tutorial.
Lack of day stages.
The majority of the day stages you find are either bosses or missions that take a long time to teach simple techniques that may only be used once or twice in that zone.
Each Werehog stage in Spagonia onward is REALLEH DIFFICULT.

That about sums it up.

EDIT: WiiS2 and PS360...

And the vast majority seems to be with you on this. I guess it's just one of my odd personal opinions.

Either way, the Sonic the Hedgehog series, in general, is like an abusive boyfriend, and makes us all the victim female of the relationship. With every new title it seems he's saying, "Look, baby I can change, really!"

And we believe our abusive boyfriend Sonic, because he brings us fake smiles through pretty-looking trailers and promising gameplay footage. Then he takes us for a spin in his car, and we play his new title. Everything seems to be better. Everybody tells us, "This hedgehog is no good for you." But we remember all the good years through the 90's with him, and how good he was to us, and we go out and see him anyway.

And the abusive boyfriend Sonic seems to have changed. He's nice, and sweet, delivering smooth and fun gameplay, until you comment on that glitch. And it's just itches him the wrong way.

"What did you say *****?" says the Hedgehog.

"N-nothing, Sonic," you reply. "I mean, I love you."

"You're all the same!" yells Sonic. "You don't love me baby!"

"No... I mean, yes, I do. Sonic, please stop yelling."

"SHUT UP!" *his eyes transform blood red, and he becomes, the werehog!*

And then us, the victimized girlfriend are beaten, and bruised by this werehog. We go to our friends, crying, and they all ask us the same question. "WHY?" Yes...why? "If he keeps doing this to you, why don't you just leave him? Please?"

But we all just wimper, and answer the same answer, "You don't understand. I love him."

"This isn't love if he keeps doing this to you. We all started to notice him developing a drinking problem since Sonic Adventure 2. And now he keeps doing this to you. Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, Riders, 2k6, and now this. It kills me to see you like this. It has to stop now."

"No!" you reply. "No...please. He needs our help. He can change, I know he can. I remember in the beginning, it was so nice. He used to take me to Aquatic Ruin Zone, and Carnival Night."

"Yes, but relationships are always nice in the beginning. He was on his best behavior, and now he's showing his true colors. And the only one getting hurt now is you."

"I know, but if he's changed once, he can change again. He just needs me."

"No! The minute a man lays his hands on you, in any harmful way, he's done. Look at what he's done to you. You need to stay away from him."

"Oh, Mario!" *cries hysterically* "I just don't know what to do anymore."

"It's okay," says Mario, holding you in his arms. "It's going to be okay."

That wily Mario. You just know he's waiting to tap that.

Either way, the Sonic the Hedgehog series, in general, is like an abusive boyfriend, and makes us all the victim female of the relationship.

You mean I'm gay? Oh, wait..... I already knew that.

HAHAHAHAH! Nice analogy, Silv. But Mario...i'd let him. >_>

*killed*

Haha, clever analogy. Anyways, do you think Sonic Chronicles was a good game? Obviously Sega and Bioware do, cuz Bioware is writing out a sequel.

^^iirc, they've been planning it since before SC was released, but since then there has been rumors since the EA merger that the handheld team has changed, or possibly don't exist anymore. Who knows if it will get greenlighted, or Bioware will actually be the ones who will make a sequel as I don't remember the game lighting the charts on fire.

I really don't understand why they canned X-Treme. It had the oppurtunity not only to be a great game, but keep the Sonic series on track. But when they canned it, (which I have no idea why they did) they not only lost the Sega Saturn, but really, the entire Sonic series. They also showed that Sony and Nintendo are better then them, with their Mario 64 and Crash Bandicoot 3D crap.

^ Perhaps it was due to the ailing Saturn, I don't know. Nintendo actually cares about their mascot, so there really haven't been any bad Mario games (I can't think of one anyway). Besides, Super Mario 64 is widely considered a classic.

Crash Bandicoot actually belongs to Universal Interactive hasn't had a good game since Naughty Dog stopped developing it for PSone and moved on to other things.

Sony has never had a mascot, from what I know of.

X-Treme was canned because of development issues between certain factors within Sega. Besides, there isn't any evidence that it would have been a great game if it ever was completed to the end.

It is my understanding that X-Treme was being developed by Sega of America and Naka basically screwed them over when he forced them to scrape everything they had made using the NiGHTs engine.

As for what materials have been released(both during development, and a decade after the fact), the game looked rather horrible.

I really don't understand why they canned X-Treme. It had the oppurtunity not only to be a great game, but keep the Sonic series on track. But when they canned it, (which I have no idea why they did) they not only lost the Sega Saturn, but really, the entire Sonic series. They also showed that Sony and Nintendo are better then them, with their Mario 64 and Crash Bandicoot 3D crap.

Because...of many reasons, not the least of which is that Sega demonstrated x-treme ignorance.

Originally, the Sega Technical Institute was preparing another Sonic game for the MegaDrive, but Sega decided it would have more to offer if it were on the 32X. When sales of the 32X proved that it wouldn't be commercially viable, Sega quickly insisted on another shift, this time to the Saturn. X-Treme's project leader decided to abandon ship at that point; probably one of the great plagues of the game's development was the lack of consistent project leadership. Naoto Ohshima and Yuji Naka, for example, were both collaborating on NiGHTS at the time.

So, Sega had the bright (?) idea of giving the project to two teams who would respectively work on the main game engine and boss engine. The first team, headed by Ofer Alon and Christian Senn, would make the easily recognisable fish-eye view appearance associated with the game. In early 1996, Sega of Japan expressed discontent about the progress of the main game engine and insisted that the boss engine be used for the whole game; this effectively scrapped Alon, Senn, and everything they'd worked on to that point. Tragically, Sega of Japan had been shown an earlier build and so canned half of the game's development because of that mistake. The second team, led by Chris Coffin, was catapulted into leading the project by default.

Coffin's engine was similar to the one for NiGHTS. Sega Technical Institute tried to obtain the actual engine from its programmer, Yuji Naka. Oh, he didn't like that. Not one bit. So he threatened to drop everything and quit, and said, "Why...so...avaricious?" Well, not exactly, but STI had to make its own stuff from scratch. While Coffin and his team was labouring frantically to crank out a game in time for Christmas of 1996, Alon and Senn pitched a PC version of what they had generated, which Sega rejected. Coffin came down with pneumonia, putting yet another huge drag on the project. By then, it was obvious that the Christmas deadline was impossible, so Sega canned the project. Alon and Senn both ditched Sega. Alon seems to have no interest in the resurrection of this project at all, but Chris Senn maintains the Sonic X-Treme Compendium.

Being fair, though, the Saturn was going to be lost anyway. It came out before third party developers were ready to make that transition, making many of them hostile to Sega. Executive Bernie Stolar really had no interest in it and was angling for the Dreamcast to come out as soon as possible. Plus, it's been proven that Sonic cannot bear the weight of a Sega console alone (Sonic CD for the Sega CD, the Adventure titles for the Dreamcast), so the Saturn was cursed from its birth.

Don't forget one of the STI guys nearly worked himself to death trying to finish it.

Leave it to Japan to screw everyone over. Makes me glad Naka's no longer around. God forbid someone outside of Japan use his "baby."

Hahaha, yeah lol. His baby. Yeah, that makes more sense to me now. Dang those vids on the compendium make me wanna play it sooo bad. But it looks kind of hard.

From some material that was released a decade later, (concept art for the opening cutscene, scrapped screenshots, n such), a lot was revealed that made me pretty disappointed in the canning of the game. It's been a while since I've looked at the stuff, and God help me to ever find the links. But from what I gathered, Sonic and Knuckles were both gonna be playable. It was set on Mobius, Metal Sonic and Mecha Sonic were both slated to appear in the game, and the Death Egg was to make its triumphant return.

Still, even if the game was great, I doubt it would have been a big hit, considering it would have been the staple game of the sinking ship that was the Saturn. I couldn't say for sure if it would have saved the Sonic series, but it definitely would have altered the entire direction of the series, and possibly would have veered it off into something completely different today.

But one could only speculate that.

From some material that was released a decade later, (concept art for the opening cutscene, scrapped screenshots, n such), a lot was revealed that made me pretty disappointed in the canning of the game. It's been a while since I've looked at the stuff, and God help me to ever find the links. But from what I gathered, Sonic and Knuckles were both gonna be playable. It was set on Mobius, Metal Sonic and Mecha Sonic were both slated to appear in the game, and the Death Egg was to make its triumphant return.

Still, even if the game was great, I doubt it would have been a big hit, considering it would have been the staple game of the sinking ship that was the Saturn. I couldn't say for sure if it would have saved the Sonic series, but it definitely would have altered the entire direction of the series, and possibly would have veered it off into something completely different today.

But one could only speculate that.

I really don't understand why they canned X-Treme. It had the oppurtunity not only to be a great game, but keep the Sonic series on track. But when they canned it, (which I have no idea why they did) they not only lost the Sega Saturn, but really, the entire Sonic series. They also showed that Sony and Nintendo are better then them, with their Mario 64 and Crash Bandicoot 3D crap.

You wash your mouth sir. Crash Bandicoot made me believe there was such a thing as a great 3-D game.

Now if you replace Crash with oh I say, Superman 64, then...

From some material that was released a decade later, (concept art for the opening cutscene, scrapped screenshots, n such), a lot was revealed that made me pretty disappointed in the canning of the game. It's been a while since I've looked at the stuff, and God help me to ever find the links. But from what I gathered, Sonic and Knuckles were both gonna be playable. It was set on Mobius, Metal Sonic and Mecha Sonic were both slated to appear in the game, and the Death Egg was to make its triumphant return.

Still, even if the game was great, I doubt it would have been a big hit, considering it would have been the staple game of the sinking ship that was the Saturn. I couldn't say for sure if it would have saved the Sonic series, but it definitely would have altered the entire direction of the series, and possibly would have veered it off into something completely different today.

But one could only speculate that.

To this day, I still mourn the loss of Mecha Sonic MKIII and what could've been if he had been utilized.

I really don't understand why they canned X-Treme. It had the oppurtunity not only to be a great game, but keep the Sonic series on track. But when they canned it, (which I have no idea why they did) they not only lost the Sega Saturn, but really, the entire Sonic series. They also showed that Sony and Nintendo are better then them, with their Mario 64 and Crash Bandicoot 3D crap.

You wash your mouth sir. Crash Bandicoot made me believe there was such a thing as a great 3-D game.

Now if you replace Crash with oh I say, Superman 64, then...

Exactly. Oh, and Mario 64 was damn revolutionary for its time.

Hah, I'm already too much of a Sonic fan to believe ANY game is better than a Sonic game 0.0

Euthanasia is in order.

Ouch.

Euthanasia?

I'm trying to find a game series I can get into to replace Sonic. But DEFINITELY NOT MARIO.

^^Why not? It is a hell of a lot better than the Sonic series. You are missing out on some excellent platformers--many that are considered "Game of the Whatever" material.

I'm trying to find a game series I can get into to replace Sonic. But DEFINITELY NOT MARIO.

I can understand this attitude if it was 1994 and we were still in the trenches of console warfare. "JIMMY, PUT DOWN THE SNES... ITS NOT WORTH IT!" You know what he said: "I believe in the hedgehog..." boom... Too much blood has been spilt...

I would certainly recommend Super Mario Galaxy over anything else though. Failing that Ratchet and Clank 1, 2, 3 on PS2 are great and Future on PS3 looks pretty. And the original Jak and Daxter. Jak 2 never happened. NEVER HAPPENED.

^^Why not? It is a hell of a lot better than the Sonic series. You are missing out on some excellent platformers--many that are considered "Game of the Whatever" material.

Exactly. Mario's basically the face of video games.

I can understand this attitude if it was 1994 and we were still in the trenches of console warfare. "JIMMY, PUT DOWN THE SNES... ITS NOT WORTH IT!" You know what he said: "I believe in the hedgehog..." boom... Too much blood has been spilt...

TBH, that attitude was pretty dumb to have in the 90's also. SMB3, SMW, and Yoshi's Island was some of the best games in the genre.

I've always been a MASSIVE fan of both Sonic and Mario, but Sonic has a slight edge with me - even now.

I can understand this attitude if it was 1994 and we were still in the trenches of console warfare. "JIMMY, PUT DOWN THE SNES... ITS NOT WORTH IT!" You know what he said: "I believe in the hedgehog..." boom... Too much blood has been spilt...

TBH, that attitude was pretty dumb to have in the 90's also. SMB3, SMW, and Yoshi's Island was some of the best games in the genre.

True. I suspect a large part of console warfare is the whole "I've just spent £200 on a machine" and the last thing you want to hear is "You've got the wrong console."

But still, we are all friends now... eh?

Yeah, I'm still a Sonic fan. They are going to do a good Sonic game again one day...

They are going to do a good Sonic game again one day...

I keep thinking that too, it's because I'm an eternal optimist.

I can understand this attitude if it was 1994 and we were still in the trenches of console warfare. "JIMMY, PUT DOWN THE SNES... ITS NOT WORTH IT!" You know what he said: "I believe in the hedgehog..." boom... Too much blood has been spilt...

TBH, that attitude was pretty dumb to have in the 90's also. SMB3, SMW, and Yoshi's Island was some of the best games in the genre.

Indeed Ashide, those were great games indeed. Exclusives to SNES at the time. Those were Ninty's plaformers. Not saying Sonics games for Genesis are better, but they're surely worth the time to playthrough. To own both a SNES and Genesis would be the greatest of the great.

Indeed Ashide, those were great games indeed. Exclusives to SNES at the time. Those were Ninty's plaformers. Not saying Sonics games for Genesis are better, but they're surely worth the time to playthrough. To own both a SNES and Genesis would be the greatest of the great.

True that. I owned both Genesis and a SNES during that time. Though I wish I had access to a Turbo-Graphx 16/Turbo-Duo, mainly for the Y's games.

edit: I wish I had access to a Neo-Geo too.

They are going to do a good Sonic game again one day...

I keep thinking that too, it's because I'm an eternal optimist.

But you guys are both over 12, and we all know how much SEGA cares for Sonic fans over that age.

Come back to me when that optimisim pays off.

I'll be waiting..... and waiting..... and waiting..... and waiting...... you get the picture 😛

Really, you'll all be a lot happier when you manage to cut the cord to Sonic.

Really, you'll all be a lot happier when you manage to cut the cord to Sonic.

NEVAR!!!!!

Really, you'll all be a lot happier when you manage to cut the cord to Sonic.

I probably would be better off. Then I won't be complaining ranting about it like some old bat.

Unleashed notwithstanding, I liked 2D better than 3D, anyway.

Really, you'll all be a lot happier when you manage to cut the cord to Sonic.

I probably would be better off. Then I won't be complaining ranting about it like some old bat.

Unleashed notwithstanding, I liked 2D better than 3D, anyway.

I can attest that it's very possible. It just takes a bit of time and focusing on other things. I still get enjoyment out of everything from SA2 back, but I've completely gotten over my need to get the latest game. You can still like Sonic without being tethered to his parent company.

Indeed Ashide, those were great games indeed. Exclusives to SNES at the time. Those were Ninty's plaformers. Not saying Sonics games for Genesis are better, but they're surely worth the time to playthrough. To own both a SNES and Genesis would be the greatest of the great.

True that. I owned both Genesis and a SNES during that time. Though I wish I had access to a Turbo-Graphx 16/Turbo-Duo, mainly for the Y's games.

edit: I wish I had access to a Neo-Geo too.

They are going to do a good Sonic game again one day...

I keep thinking that too, it's because I'm an eternal optimist.

But you guys are both over 12, and we all know how much SEGA cares for Sonic fans over that age.

Are those games that good, really? I remember seeing it on the Virtual Console and thinking..."Y...yea exactly whY is this here? Never heard of it..". Is it a platformer or adventure type game? I may consider geting Y's Book I & II if you can sell me on them. 😛

As far as cuting the cord with Sonic...that is a much tougher task than you'd think. My friends all know me as Sonic...like they're the ones not letting me let go. xD

Are those games that good, really? I remember seeing it on the Virtual Console and thinking..."Y...yea exactly whY is this here? Never heard of it..". Is it a platformer or adventure type game? I may consider geting Y's Book I & II if you can sell me on them. 😛

As far as cuting the cord with Sonic...that is a much tougher task than you'd think. My friends all know me as Sonic...like they're the ones not letting me let go. xD

Not to get off-topic but: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ys_(video_game_series) . It's a series that was created by Nihon Falcom, and it revolves around the adventures of Adol Christen in a world that is an alternate version of Earth. They are action/adventure rpgs similar to the Zelda series, Neutopia, Crusade of Centy, Seiken Denetsu and the like except that you use the d-pad(in the first 2 and 4th game) to attack. The games also have a rockin' OST, and they have been remade several times on the PC in Japan. If you like those type of games, this would be right up your alley. Personally, I'm waiting to see if the PSP remake of Ys I&II will come to NA.

Oh and tell your friends to stop calling you Sonic then.