This could go in the general music thread, I suppose, but I felt it deserved its own thread. So. Most of us have played Sonic CD, right? And most of us think its one of the best Sonic games ever, right? Good, good
Anyway, Ive played Sonic CD to death on Sonic Gems, and Ive really grown to like Spencer Nilsens work on the level music. Ive always been really surprised at the level of hate ol Spencer receives from some people. Its kind of irrational really he was simply hired by Sega of America to produce a certain kind of sound, after all, and he did his job. Furthermore, Ive never understood why some folk accuse him of butchering the Japanese soundtrack. The only way he couldve done that is if he had merely done crappy remixes of the Hataya tracks, rather than compose entirely new music. But did he succeed? Yknow, I think he did.
I really love the original Japanese music, especially the Collision Choas and Metallic Madness Future compositions. Its sophisticated, energetic, and tuneful. But sometimes, I feel that people overate it sometimes. By which I mean, it doesnt always get it right. Stardust Speedway for instance, I think, loses a lot of atmosphere and feel in the JP version whereas Nilsens compositions really add to and make the whole level feel mysterious and cosmic (sorry, couldnt think of a better word here), the Japanese theme just doesnt fit nearly as well...although it's great to listen to on its own. A few of the tracks also tend to sound a little too over the top, such as Palmtree Panic and Quartz Quadrant Bad Future. And I dont know what Naofumi Hataya was smoking when he came up with the boss themeBut its a great package overall.
I think though the US approach works for three reasonsfirstly, it suits the darker, slicker game design really well, and secondly, it brings a lot of atmosphere to the game. Thirdly, there are some really great tunes there. Tidal Tempest Present, Quartz Quadrant Good Future, and Stardust Speedway Present are all beautiful tunes. Collision Chaos Present is kind of weird, but fits well with the dark twilight look of the level. Metallic Madness Present is an interesting, more downbeat spin on the factory level theme, but the Bad Future theme outdoes it. I know the biggest criticism of the Nilsen soundtrack is that it isnt fast or energetic enough, but I find it compensates for that more than adequately. Maybe it's because I'm a search-over-speed person, I don't know.
Not that I think the American music is perfect, though. A couple of times the tracks clash a bit with the style of the Past mixes partically on Metallic Madness and it doesnt quite do as good as the Japanese music at establishing the different moods in the good/bad future timezones. But maybe thats just a side effect of the more subdued feel.
OK, I guess what Im trying to say is, is I think both soundtracks bring something different to the game. I think its a pity theres no option yet to choose between the US and JP music, I think it would encourage people to judge them more equally. But what can ya do
Anyway, hope I didnt waste your time. Thanks for readingany thoughts, criticisms, counter-arguments? Or has this subject been done to death enough?
I like Spencer's work, but the guy had NO grasp on how the game's mechanics worked. Bad future sounds either just like the present or not evil at all.
Compare Palmtree Panic, Bad Future on both versions.
Nielson did a good job with his compositions, but the Japanese ones put you in the feel of the respective future you're in VERY well.
He is also the name to the decision. He didn't MAKE it, but he's the one we blame as we have a name. Anyone who is part responsible for replacing Stardust Speedway's music deserves contempt.
And I say this as someone who thinks that Wacky Workbench sounds better in US. I just cannot handle the "bad future, lol" way most tracks are dealt with.
Plus the US soundtrack sounds REALLY weird when paired with the Past music. Take Quartz Quadrant for example. VERY memorable tune in the past, blends with the Japanese as obviously they're all remixes of one another, but next to the American, it makes the new songs sound bad.
Plus, more importantly, I grew up with the UK/JPN soundtrack, 8 years I was on it before I even heard a US track. Anything which removes that nostalgia upsets me, I admit to bias.
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I like Spencer's work, but the guy had NO grasp on how the game's mechanics worked. Bad future sounds either just like the present or not evil at all.
You like Spencer's work? I listened to your fan commentary and Sonic CD, and I got the impression you really, really hated his guts. I disagree with your comments on the bad future themes. Go and listen to the BF mixes of Stardust Speedway and Metallic Madness - if they don't scream "evil and sinister" I don't know what does.
BTW, I did enjoy your commentary very much. I just thought the Nilsen-bashing (note it's Nilsen, not Nielson as you pronounced it) was a bit much.
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Plus the US soundtrack sounds REALLY weird when paired with the Past music. Take Quartz Quadrant for example. VERY memorable tune in the past, blends with the Japanese as obviously they're all remixes of one another, but next to the American, it makes the new songs sound bad.
This I sort of agree with - but only on some Zones.
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He is also the name to the decision. He didn't MAKE it, but he's the one we blame as we have a name. Anyone who is part responsible for replacing Stardust Speedway's music deserves contempt.
Well, I guess there's a reason "name" rhymes with "shame". I stand by my comments on Stardust Speedway - the US version blows the JP version out of the water.
Anyway, here's my rundown of which tracks are better than which, just for the record (IMO of course).
PPZ Present: USA
PPZ Good: USA
PPZ Bad: JPN
CCZ Present: Tie
CCZ Good: JPN
CCZ Bad: JPN
TTZ Present: Tie
TTZ Good: JPN
TTZ Bad: USA
QQZ Present: JPN
QQZ Good: USA
QQZ Bad: USA
WWZ Present: USA
WWZ Good: JPN
WWZ Bad: USA
SSZ Present: USA
SSZ Good: USA
SSZ Bad: USA
MMZ Present: JPN
MMZ Good: JPN
MMZ Bad: JPN
Boss: USA
Final Boss: JPN by default
Invincibility: JPN
Speed Up: USA
Zone Clear: JPN
Sonic Boom vs. You Can Do Anything: Sonic Boom
Thanks for answering, anyway.
You'll notice that the commentary was my second time playing the Gems version of the game and I was making alot of "this is actually a pretty good song" comments throughout.
Again, I admit to bias.
I've grown to judge the songs based on their own merit via listening to the soundtrack without the game on, hence my vast difference in opinions.
Thanks for the name correction, by the way. Also for taking the time to listen to that boring commentary, that's true flattery.
I liked both soundtracks for different reasons.
I don't remember who said it, but I loved the way they put it: the US soundtrack is more atmospheric, while the Japanese soundtrack is more "traditional" Sonic-cy music.
I liked the commentary Craig. Better than the Sonic 2 commentary, actually.
And personally, I agree with PC. The songs for the American soundtrack fit the level environments more, whereas the Japanese soundtrack was full-blown SONIKKU!!!!!!1111!1oneone!1!
I mean US Palmtree Panic sounds like it's in a tropical island. JP Palmtree Panic sounds like there's a beach party going on somewhere.
Though I'd like to see a Sonic Rush-esque take on Sonic CD's music.
I was surprised by both actually... when i fist played the game using each version i was like "this cant be sonic music..." but it was! i suppose america just wanted to take advantage of the cd quality sound and japan just wanted to be consistent with past, future, and present themes.
Either way, i love palmtree panic past and collision chaos past music, but the est of the game i could care less which music is used. as long as it keeps a good beat to play by.
from what little i've heard of each versions, i like them both for compleately different reasons. the japanise version has some guy talking/singing/rapping in the background for several of them, but i simply can't make out any words if it's in english.
Both soundtracks have their merits, but to me the US version is just slightly better, because it's less... silly.
If we're going to play the blame game then it should be appropriately aimed at one Mr. Bernie Stolar. He's the one who decided to delay the US release of Sonic CD by several months so he could give his little multimedia studio (of which Spencer was onfortunately a part of) a purpose for existing.
While in principle I prefer the japanese soundtrack BECAUSE of its silliness, there are some choice tracks from Nielsen's work that I can enjoy too. Tidal Tempest Present, for example. Ladalada lee, a ladalada luu, hey heeey now...
I loved Sonic CD's music to death. The US version of the game was what I played before the japanese version, so that's why I prefer the music over the other version. I believe it's whatever you played first is what will strike your fancy, know what I mean?
I LOVED all of the good future themes in the US version, except for Metallic Madness. With the music, I felt goosebumps, because I thought it fitted the atmosphere very well.
Sonic CD's music FTW.
It definintally stands out during it's time -
I loved that since Sonic CD was made on a CD, the music quality made a HUGE leap, you know?
"Palmtree Panic: The Past" is without a doubt the best out of all of them.
meh, the first post was too long, I didn't read all of it, Apologies...
Back when I first bought the game, I had no idea why the Past songs weren't able to be played on a CD player or why they sounded SO freaking different. NOW I know of course.
I liked teh Past tracks being so different than the Present or Future songs... kindda gave the feeling of being somewhere new. With that said, I can hardly stand the Jap soundtrack.
The US soundtrack sounds like stuff you can listen to without the game while the other is so rife with Engrish I want to stab my eardrums out. I'll take the instrumental "Sonic Boom" over that generic techno-J-pop mess.
Yes the J soundtrack is faster and mor upbeat, but its not very musicaly pleasing to me. It's not just a case of "I heard this one first so I like it better" for me, I just really hate the J soundtrack (apart from the Past)
Hmm, another point I was gonna bring up in my initial post (but forgot) was...if the US soundtrack is as crappy as some people say it is, then how did SCD become as revered as it is now?
Oh well, that post was long enough as it was
So, anyone know what Spencer is up to these days? Maybe we could track him down for an interview. Hear his side of the story an' what have you...
I know he at least also did the SegaCD version of Ecco the Dolphin...
Just remember, BfH. The US Soundtrack only existed in US areas.
Granted the game was judged within America based on it's soundtrack, but when it comes to Japan, Asia, Australia, Europe and such we all got the good stuff *gulp-gulp-gulp* Aaaaah... now that's good nostalgia.
Speaking of which. Can you guys tell SoA to stop messing things up for us Europeans. We wanted our proper soundtrack and Streets of Rage in Gems, darn it!
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Just remember, BfH. The US Soundtrack only existed in US areas.
*coughCanadacough*
I'm not terribly fond of the Japanese soundtrack compared to the other.
I said "US Areas" I implied that to mean Region 1.
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Just remember, BfH. The US Soundtrack only existed in US areas.
I know, but the North American market is pretty much the largest.
DO NOT TRY TO ADJUST YOUR MAPS.
WE CONTROL THE LATITUDE AND THE LONGITUDE.
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The US Soundtrack only existed in US areas.
Until the PC versions came along, amirite?
I had this song stuck in my head all day!
It was the Past of ... that one crazy level where you race Metal Sonic.
I tell ya, the US Soundtrack is just SOO catchy! Not to say J-pop isn't <cough>, but it's undeniable. So retro, So Sonic!
the PC version has the Spencer music... at least mine does but I got mine in Hawaii and you never can tell what you get there
All the PC versions have the Spencer music. That's why Gems does, it's a port of the PC version.
As an afterthought, I guess it's easier for people who are used to the US soundtrack to get into the Japanese one than vice-versa. Hearing the US versions of Collision Chaos and Metallic Madness would probably be a complete mindf*ck to someone who'd only heard the JP.
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I had this song stuck in my head all day!
It was the Past of ... that one crazy level where you race Metal Sonic.
I tell ya, the US Soundtrack is just SOO catchy! Not to say J-pop isn't , but it's undeniable. So retro, So Sonic!
Not sure if you're aware of this but the Past tracks on all versions of Sonic CD are exactly the same, and originate from the JPN version. Only the Present and (both) Future tracks, boss and miscellaneous tracks vary between the regions.
Speaking of the JPN track, does anybody have a link to it as I've never heard the JPN track before.
HOTEL IS CLOSED, Y'ALL!
Enjoy!
Please try to listen to them in sequence. Tracks like Collision Chaos have reoccuring themes throughout the timelines, they're subtle references, but they work together beautifully. It's really a masterpiece of compossing, even in the worst tracks. The beauty lies in the backing tracks.
Ah, thankies, Craig. I'll listen to these later maybe put them on my PSP.
Not to upstage Craig, but here's a really good page:
sonicstyle.org/music/SonicCD/original/
It's good in that you can listen to the whole soundtrack all the way through on a continuous stream, without stopping.
I'm under no such illusion that Spencer's work is anything less than awful and an attempt by Sega to make it less japanese, given Overfiend and such.
Yes, all crap attempts to localize things comes from Ether Al Khan or the Overfiend Incident.
I've not heard of these things? Please elaborate, I'm rather curious as to why games/shows and such imported from Japan attempt to erase the fact that they're in Japan.
I'm also curious as to how or why they'd do this for Sonic, given that the game is and always was designed for an American audience, hence why all the music is in English (CD's is a lil' bit Engrish, granted) and San Francisco is one of the major locations of the series.
I thought GH links were teh illegal.
Whoopsie. I apologise. I recall Vec once telling me off for slapping someone's wrist in linking music and couldn't recall the legality of the whole dealy. Seeings as BfH has upstaged me, I shall remove my link.
My thoughts? They're both good soundtracks!
My first Experience of Sonic CD was with the PC Version, even in the UK it had the US soundtrack (my Parent's didn't buy me a Mega CD...or a 32X).
After a while I downloaded the R*M with the Japanese Soundtrack, and thought "Hey, this is pretty awesome as well!"
So, I think they're both Awesome! The US Soundtrack is a lot more serious going than the upbeat Japanese version, there's no Better or Worse IMO.
Love what ya gotta love, it's all great!
One thing I will say, is that I'm dissapointed that the Past tracks weren't re-done for the US version, so it seems kinda out of place...so I will give the Japanese audio merit for that.
Plus, "Toot Toot, Sonic Warrior" is catchy as hell!
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One thing I will say, is that I'm dissapointed that the Past tracks weren't re-done for the US version, so it seems kinda out of place...so I will give the Japanese audio merit for that.
Chalk it up to laziness. The Past music uses the Genesis' FM synth as opposed to spooling digital audio off the CD. That requires programming know-how and might have delayed the game even more.
Out of curiosity, can everyone who has heard both soundtracks please post wether they've heard them, or wether they've played the game which has that soundtrack?
Hearing and playing are two different experiences. BGM is supposed to be a mood setter to what's going on in the foreground, afterall.
Of course, I've played both of them, but only 3 times on the US soundtrack. How about everyone else?
I've heard both of them and mainly played Sonic CD on the American soundtrack and I find I prefer the American one. The Japanese one kind of turned me off by the sound and vocals. I don't want vocals when I'm listening to the techno tunes...
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Chalk it up to laziness. The Past music uses the Genesis' FM synth as opposed to spooling digital audio off the CD. That requires programming know-how and might have delayed the game even more.
Yeah, I remember it had something to do with that, hence why the ISO for the R*M only needed Music tracks for the Present, Good Future, and Bad Future.
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Hearing and playing are two different experiences. BGM is supposed to be a mood setter to what's going on in the foreground, afterall.
Of course, I've played both of them, but only 3 times on the US soundtrack. How about everyone else?
Youre definately right about that! I remember downloading the music years ago for the Japanese version, and thinking "Hey, this isn't bad..." but after actually playing a level With the music, it became a completely different game....
The wakcy vocal shtick is what tuned me off too. The USsT had those ladies in teh background but that was better than "WOOOO! YAAAAAY! *CLAPS*"
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I'm under no such illusion that Spencer's work is anything less than awful and an attempt by Sega to make it less japanese, given Overfiend and such.
I'll have you know I'm under no 'illusion', thank you.
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Seeings as BfH has upstaged me, I shall remove my link.
As I said, I didn't mean to upstage you![:]](https://www.mobiusforum.net/images/icons/smilies/biggrinshaded.gif){kind=icon}
I just wanted to share a pretty good music link, one you can listen to while surfing without having to click all the time.
I'm pretty much in the same boat as tornadot, although I love the japanese Metal Madness present track to death.
I also thank tornadot, whose avatar has reminded me which game I'm supposed to look for this month.
*deeeep cleansing breath*
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Out of curiosity, can everyone who has heard both soundtracks please post wether they've heard them, or wether they've played the game which has that soundtrack?
I first played the PC version of Sonic CD, which has the US soundtrack, and I played it to death. When that PC version became incompatible with later versions of Winblows (*snigger*), I first resolved to listen to the JPN soundtrack and then to acquire the original Mega CD ROM.
(EDIT: Heheh. I only just now noticed that there's a really silly typo coming up that means what I wanted to type and what I actually typed mean something completely different. XD
Original line:
I'm not currently hunting for a real Mega CD version of the game.../EDIT)
I'm now currently hunting for a real Mega CD version of the game because I have long since resolved to avoid piracy wherever possible and I adore that soundtrack so damn much. This is coming from someone who grew up with the US track: the Japanese version rocks hard and elevates the game to legendary status singlehandedly. The US soundtrack in comparison makes Sonic CD feel like cheap knockoff tat - good, but hardly mindblowing. The game was ruined the moment the new soundtrack was added.
As standalone albums, however, both have their merits - Stardust Speedway Present (US) is a standout, and the soundtrack is generally quite evocative of a world with an uncertain future. It just isn't Sonic.
The Japanese soundtrack needs clearer lyrics, period. It damages the integrity of a lot of the songs. Worse, I get the feeling that if we could hear the lyrics clearly, they'd be incredibly cheesy (the Boss music springs to mind) to the point where they'd ruin the songs. Perhaps they're better off unintelligible.
I so desperately want to hear remixes of the albums that combine the two distinct works. Call it quasi-blasphemous if you will, but I'm sure you'd see it truly shine under the right guiding hand.
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As standalone albums, however, both have their merits - Stardust Speedway Present (US) is a standout, and the soundtrack is generally quite evocative of a world with an uncertain future. It just isn't Sonic.
Hmm, now that's the criticism of the Nilsen soundtrack that usually leaves me scratching my head. Do we really need a narrow, set-in-stone definition of what is and isn't Sonic? I thought that was why people liked the SatAM cartoon (which I kind of regard as the American Sonic CD's artistic cousin, if you catch my drift). It was dark, unlike typical Sonic.
You know, I finally was able to listen to both US and JP soundtracks the other day...
And now I don't know which to choose >_<
I put the best ones on my ipod:
"Stardust Speedway: Past"
"Tidal Tempst: Present (JP)"
"Palmtree Panic: Past"
"Collision Chaos: Bad Future(US)"
"Zone Clear (It's just that much fun x3)(US)"
"Special Stage (US)"
"Ending (US)"
There's more US songs in there, but I do think that the JP soundtrack has better "Past" tracks...
Elias... ALL the past tracks are Japan. There's no American counterpart for them.
I still think that alot of people's perspectives are majorly thrown off by the fact they haven't PLAYED the game with the opposing soundtrack. You can't really judge what does and does not fit the game without, first, playing the level with that music to see if it feels right.
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Worse, I get the feeling that if we could hear the lyrics clearly, they'd be incredibly cheesy (the Boss music springs to mind) to the point where they'd ruin the songs.
WHUP THAT ASS AGAIN C'MON WHUP THAT ASS AGAIN
"They were Gods among men." *wipes away tear*
"But Dad--"
"GODS AMONG MEN."
The WAR begins! The Earth tremblin' FEAR! The Bold! The Brave and the coooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooold hearted! DISKUZIZLITLNDRAR The power you possess is INCREDIBLE!!! He DOESN'T EVEN COMPARE!!!!
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The WAR begins! The Earth tremblin' FEAR! The Bold! The Brave and the coooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooold hearted! DISKUZIZLITLNDRAR The power you possess is INCREDIBLE!!! He DOESN'T EVEN COMPARE<!~~EZCODE BOLD START~~>!</strong><!~~EZCODE BOLD END~~>
I particularly agree with 'DISKUZIZLITLNDRAR'. A truer word has never been spoken.
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I still think that alot of people's perspectives are majorly thrown off by the fact they haven't PLAYED the game with the opposing soundtrack. You can't really judge what does and does not fit the game without, first, playing the level with that music to see if it feels right.
On that note, Stardust Speedway Present is the one exception to the rule - its US version fits the level and setting far more accurately than the JPN version. There's just one thing missing from the US version to make it fit completely - the wacky vocal synth from all the Speedway JPN tracks. Gotta love that wacky vocal synth, even if it does sound like a giraffe being crushed.
There's also the fact that the US soundtrack doesn't remove that feeling of similarity between the zones that is present throughout Sonic CD (with only Palmtree Panic and Tidal Tempest feeling truly distinct and separate from the other zo-- rounds) whilst the JPN soundtrack makes each area feel that much more distinct.
Doesn't anyone else find Wacky Workbench and Metallic Madness far too similar? You could have dropped Metallic Madness and put it in a Sonic CD 2 and it would have passed for Wacky Workbench Mk. II.
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There's also the fact that the US soundtrack doesn't remove that feeling of similarity between the zones that is present throughout Sonic CD (with only Palmtree Panic and Tidal Tempest feeling truly distinct and separate from the other zo-- rounds) whilst the JPN soundtrack makes each area feel that much more distinct.
I can't say I've ever experienced that problem. Collision Chaos, Stardust Speedway, and Metallic Madness sound nothing alike, really.
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Doesn't anyone else find Wacky Workbench and Metallic Madness far too similar? You could have dropped Metallic Madness and put it in a Sonic CD 2 and it would have passed for Wacky Workbench Mk. II.
Let's see...
www.dcshooters.co.uk/soni...ent_us.mp3
www.dcshooters.co.uk/soni...ent_us.mp3
Nope. Don't hear it at all. As I said earlier, I feel the US music brings out the individual nature of each level
a bit better than the JP version. Compare Metallic Madness in both versions. The US makes you feel like you're in some weird, nightmarish factory. The JP music is more like GRRR!!! ROBOTNIKS GONNA GET YA!! OMGWTFBBQ!!!11 Which is funny, seeing as I actually prefer the JP version, though that might just change sometime in the future...
