Also, the modern Sonic levels look as boringly on the rails as usual

Even more so. The pirahna scene is pure rail and boost scripting and it looks like the way to get killed, if any, is to dare to move the controller.

The 2D scenes are essentially HD remix but better.

Velotix Lexovetikan wrote:

The three generations are confirmed as ~1991, ~1999 and ~2010, or Classic, Early 3D and HD eras respectively.

2 out of 3 sounds pretty good to me.

Well, this game works for me! Anyway, here's an article from Kotaku; be sure to view the video at the top of the page as it talks about concerns of momentum from Sonic 4 being addressed in this game. Also, IGN's take. One more thing, the Spanish interview with English subtitles!

Looks okay. I enjoyed the daytime stages for the HD Sonic unleashed so i should like this. Sega finally get we dont want to play as anyone else but Sonic, so this time they gave us two! Since this is the 20th anniversary, I hope it comes with some cool collectibles, like the japanese dreamcast Sonic Adventure 2 special edition.

But is this game what Sonic Anniversary was supposed to be? I thought Sega had three Sonic games lined up, but Sonic Anniversary was rumoured to be what this game turned out to be, a collection of old levels rendered in HD. Sonic 4 episode 2 is logically one of the three games lined up, so is anniversary still a separate game, or is there a still unannounced game? Possibly one for the wii I'd imagine. Unless it's yet another compilation of classic Sonic games. How about a compilation that collects all previous compilations?

Last one is probably the Mario and Sonic at the London Olympics game.

Or yet another DS game, or potential 3DS game? E3 should bare all!

Also, the modern Sonic levels look as boringly on the rails as usual

Even more so. The pirahna scene is pure rail and boost scripting and it looks like the way to get killed, if any, is to dare to move the controller.

The 2D scenes are essentially HD remix but better.

But Sonic Unleashed had alternate paths! Like that China (Chu-Nan stage, for instance. In the Wii version, at least, if you ran off the Great Wall and started running on the water into that cave it took you down this path where you were running down a path in the mountains with all these waterfalls and stuff...

Then there was Italy (Spagonia) where near the very beginning if you turned right using the drifting mechanic there was a shortcut that took you up some stairs and onto the sidewalk ( you know those big, brick paths they have?) and onto an entirely different path. There's also numerous other branching paths you can take if you notice the little Egg-robos you can home-attack to give you a boost to the other parts of the level.

I also remember paths like this in The Middle East (Shumar, I think it was) and Hawaii (...can't remember) so they were probably in the other Day stages, too. Weirdly, though the Night levels were more slow-paced I don't think I remember any Branching paths. There was a lot to explore and a lot of collectibles to get but no alternate routes... like, for instance, you had to open some doors, go check out that alley-way you ignored before or look at the top of the entrance you just came in. Feels like I was the only one who liked the Night stages at all...

I haven't played Sonic Colors so I can't attest to how many choices in playing it it let you have, but I at least proved not ALL 3D sonic games railroad you.

Also, the translated interview said they were going to have old AND new stages. I wonder what they're going to use for new stages? I think zero gravity shenanigans and blowing up old, forgotten GUN robots on the Space colony ARK would be an interesting experience. It was the site of many levels in Sonic Adventure 2, plus it's important storywise. I'd like to see how they'd pull it off in Classic Sonic's 2D gameplay... It might just play like an updated S3&K Death Egg Zone since that place liked messing with you using by screwing around with the gravity as well. Plus it would be remade in ZOMG GORJUZ GRAFIKS. @_@

I don't mean so much alternate paths as much as just the straight pathways are pretty much constant boost panels and rails, like every other 3D Sonic. Which, y'know, isn't fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wuj-6T_ymqg

More gameplay footage show almost all of Green Hill Zone gameplay. For a moment I though the giant pirahna was eat Sonic when he was doidng that combo .

http://www.sonicstadium.org/2011/04/cla ... nerations/
Also Classic Sonic won't talk. Seem kind of stupid for him not talk. How will he communicate with his older self? Will Tails use his translator from Sonic Colors to talk to him?

Aw, man, that looks so awwweeesooommmeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sonic colors was okay but there's no mistaking this IT'S PERFECT!!!!!!

and no way i'm playing modren sonic mode XD i'm so happy my kids one day can play the old sonic without calling me a dinosaur.

AwesomePandaWarrior from Bumbleking says:
Classic Sonic is gonna be mute. Probably for the best.

Also, new screenshots. Looks beautiful, no?

Why did it take them this long to get it right?

Why did it take them this long to get it right?

To be this good takes AGES... and a lot of complaining.

I don't mean so much alternate paths as much as just the straight pathways are pretty much constant boost panels and rails, like every other 3D Sonic. Which, y'know, isn't fun.

This video shows the diversity Modern Sonic's playstyle can have.

It has you constantly dodging things and making sure you stay on your toes. You can't just press the "Boost" button and up then go through the level with your eyes closed or you'd die in the first 5 seconds of the video. While there are some boost/rail-heavy sections they're meant to more show off the level or just let players enjoy how fast they're going. But that stage isn't just running, boosts and rails.

And even if most levels (I'm not saying they are, but I don't have the time to sift through videos to come to a conclusion since I have to go somewhere soon...) aren't like that, hopefully Sonic Team has been listening to the complaints of the fans who aren't enjoying the levels and will try to address the issues they have... since I imagine most people who don't enjoy the Modern playstyle are the older fans and this game's meant to bring the new and old fans together.

Mada, I get the feeling this isn't going to be about 'picking' the one you want to play...methinks you have to play BOTH to beat the game.

at least that's the impression I get.

0______0 oh god no why why?!
i mean i dont not like the new sonic but when you have pizza do you really want to eat bread too? and yeah @ rayzor its dead goregeous

To be fair, the early 3D stages were always the easy ones in Unleashed and Colors, and the same can be said for the Classic Sonics. It's to get you used to the gameplay mechanics; the harder stages come later.

Here's a GameInformer article about the game, as well. Tim Turi is the staff's resident Sonic fan, and has pretty much shown his disdain for the 3D titles. Apparently, Generations is changing his mind.

Gameinformer - Sonic Generations

I am tempted to get the most recent 3D Sonic titles to give them a proper and fair go, and to get a better idea of what we'll be seeing, especially now that they're cheap...but I've not got much money sadly.

That said, a question!

What levels from the many games would you like to see in 3D from the old school era, and in 2D from the Dreamcast era and onward?

Here's some I'd like to see.

Sonic 1: Starlight Zone - Love the music, and has always been my favourite from this game, cityscape in the background, and a relaxing vide to the whole thing...minus the Bob-omb-a-likes.

Sonic 2: Oil Ocean - I don't think there's been a level like this one since. To me it's one of the most memorable ones out there, with a cool piece of music that's pretty funky. It also had a lot of cool level specific things outside of the oil, such as the greenflame launchpads, those sliding spike things, and those cannons in the sky that are a lot like the launching barrels in DKC.

Sonic 3: Hydrocity Zone - Music is a running theme I guess, but it's also my favourite water themed level. I know most would say Ice Cap, but that's been done in Sonic Adventure.

Sonic & Knuckles: Flying Battery Zone - I just love this level too much. The music, the design, the speedy bits, the platforming bits, the magets and rockets...even the bosses are cool imo.

I'd list more but I'll leave it at that for now.

Well, glad to hear all that. Did anybody notice in the gameplay vid that you can hear birds chirping in the background?

Why did it take them this long to get it right?

just sayin'

Okay so if they feature these stages from classic Sonic, I will buy this day 1:

Starlight Zone
Casino Night Zone (With the superior 2 player version tune)
Carnival Night
Mushroom Hill

Sonic 1: Jungle Zone from the Master System/GameGear version would be glorious. Also have to agree with Starlight Zone.

Sonic 2: Oil Ocean is a very, very solid choice but at the same time I'd really like to see Hilltop Zone. That'd be pretty awesome, sweet music, crumbling caves and molten lava etc.

Sonic 3: Ice Cap Zone. Don't care if it was done before, still a supremely awesome level.

Sonic and Knuckles: Either Lava Reef zone because its music was just that damn awesome, or Sky Sanctuary zone. Although saying that, knowing Sega, Sky Sanctuary zone in 3D would just be bottomless pit after bottomless pit. But if done right it be fantastic, complete with Super Metal Sonic bossfight!

All I ask is for Wing Fortress zone from 2 and Stardust Speedway from CD and I will buy it on the spot!

As I don't think that certain level tropes would be used twice, so i'm keeping level variety on my list in mind as well as picking some of my favorites.

-From Sonic 2, I think that Chemical Plant would be picked. It's a very remembered level even from people who aren't really into the series, not to mention it's music is definitely up there as one of the most catchiest. It's a pretty unique level overall and can serve as one of the more fast paced zones in the game.

-From 3, i'll go with Hydro City zone if only because it's the best water level from the classic era, and since those are pretty sparse in the 3D era, there really isn't much to choose from.

-For S&K, Lava Reef Zone was my favorite so I will tend to be biased to choose it. =P

-If there was going to be a Game Gear representative zone, there really is a lot to choose from and to see these zones in much better, non-limiting hardware could make any of them justice and would be a sight to behold, but if I had to narrow it down to just one i'll probably go with either Sunset Park or Gigalopolis zone.

-I would like a level from Sonic R as well and Radiant Emerald would make a fantastic level.

-For Sonic Adventure a reimagined Sky Deck, complete with a segment from Sonic 2 and this game's Sky Chase as the first part of the level for both Sonics respectively.

-For SA2, there was talk of the City Escape theme being remade some time ago, so that seems like the most logical choice. If I actually had to pick a stage despite that, i'll probably go with either Meteor Herd or Mission Street/Radical Highway. Pyramid Cave could also work.
-From Heroes, Mystic Mansion was actually a pretty great level and wouldn't mind seeing it again.

-If there was a Dimps representative level from either their Advance/Rush series, any of Sonic Rush Adventure's levels would be great picks since I thought they were all pretty great and unique levels to begin with.

-There would probably be one from Sonic '06 as well hmmmm... I guess seeing Crisis City done more competently would be the lesser of all evils considering the rest of the game's lest than stellar levels. Kingdom Valley could also work, but I dunno.

-I still don't have an ice level, so I guess I could go with Holosaka as the best choice from Sonic Unleashed. Chu-nan would be my second choice.

If SEGA was awesome, the last level would consist of a giant amalgamation of every Robotnik's bases as small segments, changing with every room as you go further along, leading up to Doomsday-esque level at the end.

Iizuka interview and more footage of Green Hill! Note: Iizuka is speaking Japanese of course, but the translation is French still has some new footage though.

I find it a little strange to be complaining about the 3D games being on rails when the early games were 2D. Perhaps being 3D makes it seem more on-rails. There's a lot more 'things that make you go fast' than the early games, but they had a lot of those too. In the 3D games, these guys are usually placed in front of loop-de-loops, corkscrews, and huge jumps. It's probably a gameplay design to keep speed up.

Wow Stickghost, you think?

Shut up. I just got done playing Sonic 3 / Sonic & Knuckles with all 3 characters (because I never actually did see Super Tails before; good a reason as any) and can't tell you how many times I hit a loop-de-loop or curved wall without enough speed, causing me to drop back and fire up a Spindash (which coincidentally has been toned WAY down in the 3D games.) Can't say I found that riveting.

Now, the piranha scene is indeed on-rails and not the best example of those more epic set-pieces I hope to see. But seeing it brings me hope for those more unique segments like snowboarding in Adventure (and Sonic 3 for you retro guys.)

Reimagined Starlight Zone. I want it. Quite possibly my favorite 2D Sonic level. So beautiful. <3 But ya know...I don't think i'm going to follow this game. I'll surely read/watch the review, but I really want to be surprised by this game. Considering i'm probably actually going to get this one. Sonic 4 on the otherhand. Show us some Episode II stuff SEGA!

http://www.g4tv.com/videos/52595/Sonic-Generations-First-Look-Preview/#video-52597

....Behold. It is glorious.

So level predictions
Classic
GHZ (In already)
Star Light
Stardust Speedway
Chemical Plant
Casino Night
Hydrocity
Launch Base
Sky Sanctuary
Death Egg

Dreamcast
Emerald Coast
Ice Cap
Twinkle Park
Lost World
Final Egg
Vs Perfect Chaos
City Escape (There is a new Escape from the City being made)
Pumpkin Hill
Metal Harbour
Final Chase or Rush.

Modern
Bingo Highway
Mystic Mansion
Water Palace
Mirage Road
Machine Labyrinth
Pirates's Island
Crisis City
Kingdom Valley
Spagonia
Eggmanland

Thats too many levels, I kinda doubt the Rush/Rush Adventure levels would appear. And I havent got a Fire/Lava level. Crisis City doesn't count. I doubt Colours/Storybook/Advance/Riders/Rivals/8 bit would make an appearance. Colours might have a level or two but thats the only one that could. Although Sunset Park Act 3 would be awesome.

Also with that Pumpkin Hill inclusion. I know it was a Knuckles level but it looked so cool in Adventure 2 I doubt they wouldn't at least consider it.

Oh christ I'm getting excited for it. Why do you do this Sega.

You all are setting yourselves up for disappointment. Just sayin'

This is Sega, after all.

It's looking a lot more promising...and nobody's expecting absolute genius, just a decent playable game. :3

At least, that's all I need from them.

You all are setting yourselves up for disappointment. Just sayin'

This is Sega, after all.

Well, considering how the latest Sonic games of Unleashed (day stages but still) and Colors have gotten the most praise outta all the modern games since the SAs, people have just a little bit more reason to be excited and have hope that they won't be disappointed.

Haha this is true, this is true. Which probably explained our excitement for Sonic Heroes. Ugh...

Super Rayzor wrote:

---

Hukos wrote:

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You all are setting yourselves up for disappointment. Just sayin'

This is Sega, after all.

Well, considering how the latest Sonic games of Unleashed (day stages but still) and Colors have gotten the most praise outta all the modern games since the SAs, people have just a little bit more reason to be excited and have hope that they won't be disappointed.

Half a good game does not justify the other half.

I'm still firm believer in the Sonic Cycle, which is why I won't be disappointed when everyone comes back and hates this game after Sega inevitably skips the beta testing phase :3

Half a good game does not justify the other half.

And Sonic Colors? Don't ignore that.

Super Rayzor wrote:

---

Hukos wrote:

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Half a good game does not justify the other half.

And Sonic Colors? Don't ignore that.

By not listing Colors, I implied that it was the exception to the rule. Still, I don't think Colors being an anomaly is any evidence that Sega won't pull the same old crap they've done before. This is the same company that released Sonic 06, after all. I can easily see Sega hyping this up and skipping some critical development phase and turning Generations into an incredible failure.

But Sega themselves have admitted to taking steps to get away from 06, and with things getting better, with Colors seemingly being the culmination of those efforts thus far, I don't think it's completely unreasonable for people to have more hope. Plus, the same writers that wrote for Colors writing for this is also another reason to be hopeful, even if it is cautiously.

Man, so much negativity!

gunstars.net

stickghost wrote:

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Man, so much negativity!

Damn straight. Too much optimism in a topic about a new Sonic game :crazy:

Anyway, I'm not convinced that Colors is a sign of things to come. It just seems like after failing so many times, that Sega eventually captured lightning in a bottle and managed to make something good. Of course it's not unreasonable to have hope, I just have a really bad feeling that this is going to end very badly, given the hype that this game is getting.

Hukos wrote:

---

You all are setting yourselves up for disappointment. Just sayin'

This is Sega, after all.

To be fair its only really Sonic that Sega have effed up on.

I find it a little strange to be complaining about the 3D games being on rails when the early games were 2D. Perhaps being 3D makes it seem more on-rails.

Thing is you can move in 2 dimensions in 2D, but the 3D games generally want you to move in 1 dimension. Yes, you can go up and down and move in 3D in specific instances, but an overall view of the 2D games would be a 2D map, as opposed to a line jumping across 3D space.

There's a lot more 'things that make you go fast' than the early games, but they had a lot of those too. In the 3D games, these guys are usually placed in front of loop-de-loops, corkscrews, and huge jumps. It's probably a gameplay design to keep speed up. Wow Stickghost, you think? Shut up. I just got done playing Sonic 3 / Sonic & Knuckles with all 3 characters (because I never actually did see Super Tails before; good a reason as any) and can't tell you how many times I hit a loop-de-loop or curved wall without enough speed, causing me to drop back and fire up a Spindash (which coincidentally has been toned WAY down in the 3D games.) Can't say I found that riveting.

Note that the loop accomplished a gameplay purpose. You had to get momentum or do a spin dash to get past it. While it is not riveting to be 'punished' in such a way, the penalty was just a few seconds and crossing it was a 'reward.' Classic platformers are made of moments like that, rewarding you with fun and unquantifiable benefits at a minute level. Keep in mind you can pass a loop in a ton of different ways and even initiate interesting momentum reactions by jumping at various points of the loop. 3D loops are just cutscenes that kill you if you press a button. BTW, it's also why I like the Sonic Heroes power formation. You can do lots of interesting combos and accomplish tasks with a ridiculous number of options. I still say that despite control issues and 'basically a released beta' the best 3D Sonic game until Colors is Heroes.

Hukos wrote:

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It just seems like after failing so many times, that Sega eventually captured lightning in a bottle and managed to make something good.   

Well, maybe after succeeding so many times, SEGA eventually dropped the ball and managed to make something bad. This is the same company that released like a hundred other awesome games, after all.

And Veckums, your fascination for loop-de-loops scares me a little.

Hukos wrote:
It just seems like after failing so many times, that Sega eventually captured lightning in a bottle and managed to make something good.
Well, maybe after succeeding so many times, SEGA eventually dropped the ball and managed to make something bad. This is the same company that released like a hundred other awesome games, after all.

And Veckums, your fascination for loop-de-loops scares me a little.

Anyway, freedom to move in alternate dimensions doesn't mean much if there's no reason to do so. And usually there isn't. You may be free to jump during a loop in 2D, but rarely did it benefit you, like say, finding an alternate path. Usually jumping on a loop just made you fall off and have to try the loop again. The 2D games did have more paths, but to be fair, making alternate paths in a 3D environment is a hell of a lot more work. In 2D, we had overlapping paths that you could see but couldn't stand on because they were not on the same plane of existance as you. You couldn't do that in 3D, or at least it'd be a bad idea. Now, I'm not saying that every loop should be preceeded by a speed booster. If they are consequetive, then I understand why they're there.

But really, the 3D games probably just seem more on-rails because it's more blantant. You go from a free area to a straight path, often accompanied by a cinematic camera view. The 2D games had their share of on-rails like Carnival Night Zone where you hit like 50 speed ring things in a row. But it's all 2D so it's easy to not notice when you are on a linear path and when you're not. Now, you probably won't die should you jump during a 2D on-rails segment, but then again, when you jump during a loop while on an narrow isthmus and you end up in the water and die, it is your own fault. It's kinda like racing a Formula one and thinking "Man, I've been driving down this track for 26 laps now. I'm gonna try driving across the grass this time... OH MY GOD I SPUN OUT AND NOW I'M IN LAST PLACE WHAT THE F___ MAN!?!"

ADD: more stuff since I'm not in hurry anymore. Warning: due to the sarcastic nature of this post, reader discretion is advised.

stickghost wrote:
Hukos wrote:
It just seems like after failing so many times, that Sega eventually captured lightning in a bottle and managed to make something good.
Well, maybe after succeeding so many times, SEGA eventually dropped the ball and managed to make something bad. This is the same company that released like a hundred other awesome games, after all.

And Veckums, your fascination for loop-de-loops scares me a little.

So Heroes - Unleashed all counts as one game?

Well, a tidbit of news could ease the tension in the room, couldn't it?

According to Gamestop.com, this is the current cover art for the game. Could be placeholder, of course, but I'm still fine with it. Plus, any news would be nice.

I'd be remarkably surprised if that wasn't just a placeholder. o.o

And Veckums, your fascination for loop-de-loops scares me a little.

Arguing on the internet 101!

When in doubt about your position, don't concede the point, just insult the other guy for having a more thoughtful response!

To go with that, SEGA releases hundreds of awesome games still?

I can think of Yakuza, Valkyria Chronicles and...no, it's been ages since Virtua Fighter was released, do Plantinum Games count? There's Bayanetta in that case...

Oh, Mega Drive compilations, they count right?

In all seriousness, SEGA hasn't been the great company it used to be, it's better than it was in 2005 to 2007 to be sure, but they're sadly still not paving the way to glory like they did in the earli 90s and with the Dreamcast in terms of fantastic games.

I'm leaning towards that, as well. GameStop does have a tendency to jump the gun a bit.

I will bet my old xbox 360 and say that is a placeholder.

stickghost wrote:
Anyway, freedom to move in alternate dimensions doesn't mean much if there's no reason to do so. And usually there isn't. You may be free to jump during a loop in 2D, but rarely did it benefit you, like say, finding an alternate path. Usually jumping on a loop just made you fall off and have to try the loop again.

It seems that you haven't noticed a quirk in the 2D loops mechanics, but if you jump and/or spin at just the right time you will be able to get an extra burst of speed because the extra mometum that you got from the loop will be transferred over to where you land, thus making you go faster. You can do this in a lot of areas, like in quarter circle paths that goes upward and jumping at the right time as you are going up will make you jump even higher, sometimes giving Knuckles or Tails that extra help they need to reach a certain far off ledge that wouldn't be as easily accomplished. These are just two examples of the mechanics of 2D Sonic platforming that makes rewarding the player with a lot of these little victories that makes it fun.

As for the rest of your post, paths really aren't the only thing that that most of the 3D games are missing and it's these reasons why they aren't as engaging or as fun, at least when comparing them to their 2D counterparts. The fact that nearly all of these quirks are even transferred over to the Advance/Rush series even speaks volumes on that.

For example, it's not that the 3D games are blatantly more on-rails, it's that there really isn't anything else to do but to go forward. Every time you replay a 3D stage, what is different about it from other playthroughs? All the levels are almost nothing but straight lines, with hardly any divergence in them and makes them rather repetitive to play them over; the extra paths that were available really are few and far between and are pretty small to begin with. This is something that the 2D games don't fall into because there really are a lot of things to do and the amount of player input is important to look at as well.

Take Aquatic Ruin for example. There are usually three different paths you could take of finish the level. Most people would try to avoid the water route, and if you are smart enough on controlling your character you can take all the paths that completely avoid it, or maybe you want to go inside and explore the more perilous water sections. The key here is that it's possible to do either; you also have the option of going somewhere in between as well! This is an important aspect of the 2D games that most definitely not makes them linear. The more options you have in a level the less linear they become. This is something that the 3D games don't always have, as you are usually running forward in a straight line all the time, thus making them more linear.

On the other side of the coin, Sonic Heroes has the added mechanic of the team aspect that actually helps add player interactivity a bit, now that I actually look into it. And Sonic Colors also has the wisps as well as alternate paths to try. These are things that do make the 3D games more enjoyable and an important aspect that should be utilized more often to help make them, at least fell less linear.

I hope i'm not pushing any buttons, but I just wanted to make a rebuttal and point out a few things.