The game should be out in Japan today and there's already quite a few spoilers ready to discuss from the various videos and such that have been seen, so feel free to make any predictions whilst you still have the chance if you like. Basically this thread is here so that the main Heroes/Battle thread doesn't get clogged up with a load of spoilers, meaning that people can actually give feedback on the gameplay, sound and look of the game and to lower the chance of people making threads with spoilers in the title such as "OMG CHARMY IS EGGMAN'S ESTRANGED WIFE!" etc.
As such spoiler tags aren't necessary here when relating to Sonic Heroes' story, including whatever "last" episode there may be.
Unlockable extras and such as bonus 2 player characters and stuff however SHOULD retain spoiler tags, as should spoilery references to Sonic Battle's story should there be any.
I know there are lots of people that will want to go nuts talking about the story for this new game, so do so here.
I will now depart this thread until I finish the game for myself.
Argh! I live in the UK so it won't be out 'till Febuary...
That's a horrible amount of time to wait, whoever is living in the US is lucky, but not as lucky as those Japanese Sonic Fans...
P.S. What exactly does happen in Sonic Heroes, apart from the whole 'Shadow Cloning' and the 'Liquid Metal Sonic' and the like...?
I would give some feedback storyline-wise..if I could. You see, Sonic Heroes doesn't emphasise on the storyline as much as the SA series. I may be wrong if there's a 40 minute cutscene at the end or something.
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P.S. What exactly does happen in Sonic Heroes, apart from the whole 'Shadow Cloning' and the 'Liquid Metal Sonic'
As for "liquid Metal Sonic", it is not liquid at all - it was just shown in a thunder storm. I have seen screenshots of it and it is definatly solid. As for Shadow cloning there is no confirmation of that yet.
There's a cut scene showing Metal Sonic reforming from liquid.
Don't tell me I'm wrong, there are Screenshots of Shadow clones.
Go to Sonic Cult, you'll also see that Metal Sonic rises from a liquid puddle and then forms into Solid Metal.
the link is www.sonic-cult.org
I know what I'm talking about!
It's definately liquid. The purple liquid turns into metal Sonic right at the end of the cutscene.
Even though it isn't anything to do with the main story, I find it interesting that the E2000 series are already in production, yet they seem pretty weak. O.O
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Argh! I live in the UK so it won't be out 'till Febuary...
That's a horrible amount of time to wait, whoever is living in the US is lucky, but not as lucky as those Japanese Sonic Fans...P.S. What exactly does happen in Sonic Heroes, apart from the whole 'Shadow Cloning' and the 'Liquid Metal Sonic' and the like...?
He ordered it from Japan because it is still not out in the rest of the world. I would have ordered it from Japan too but I don't fancy buying the game twice just so I can hear it in English.
Just completed the game. I'll be posting my thoughts on it tomorrow, as it's quite late. Watch this space.
Finished Sonic Heroes earlier today.
Let's cut to the chase:
-If you haven't realized it yet, the Eggman every Team battles is not the REAL Eggman. You'll find out about him at the end of Team Chaotix's game, where they discover that Eggman himself was the "client" all along, locked away in the Final Fortress.
-If you've gone as far as Frog Forest for Team Sonic and Dark, you'll know that Metal has been masquerading as Eggman during all of the previous battles, and the ones after. For what purpose? To collect life data, specifically those from Team Sonic, the Ultimate Lifeform and Chaos.
-What? Chaos?! Indeed, he acquires the data during the course of Team Rose's game, but I'm not quite sure WHERE he gets it from: Team Rose themselves, Froggy or Chocola? They all come into contact with Metal (as the fake Eggman) during the final scene.
-Sadly, little is actually mentioned about Shadow and the truth about him. Both he and Rouge witness evidence that points to him being a robot (as in, wires and tubes on the inside) after fighting with the fake Eggman at Bullet Station. Eggman himself even tells him that "he has no memories".
Omega believes that although there are clones, there must be a real one out there. That much seems to satisfy Rouge. Shadow himself thinks it all means nothing in the end:
"Even if I'm not real, I'm STILL the Ultimate Lifeform, Shadow The Hedgehog!"
-"Talk about stubborn and full of surprises!" -Sonic, to Shadow right before their Teams battle after Frog Forest (a direct reference to SA2, where Shadow tells Sonic something similar before their final battle).
-Shadow remembers his rivalry with Sonic, but little else. There is no mention of ARK, Maria or Prof. Gerald. He DOES remember some things:
"We're flying very high! We might even be at the edge of space."
"Space... did you say SPACE?" -Rouge and Shadow, as they fall towards the Egg Fleet.
Now, as for the final battle "Last", all Teams join forces to buy Team Sonic enough time to prepare themselves. Metal invokes his power, and changes into a mammoth hulk of living metal resembling that of a dragon (or Chaos). You play first as Team Rose, then as Team Chaotix and Team Dark respectively. After taking some damage, Metal grows metallic wings and takes to the air.
Team Sonic finally evoke the power of the Chaos Emeralds. Sonic changes into Super Sonic, while Tails and Knuckles are both endowed with a like power, otherwise they remain in their normal forms (methinks it's Super Sonic bringing them along for the ride with his power).
After an all too brief aerial assault, Team Sonic brings down Metal Overlord. He reverts back to his normal form, pre-Heroes. Metal Sonic laments at his inability to defeat Sonic again. Sonic tells him he's up for another rematch if he wants it.
All the characters split up afterwards. Sonic and Tails run off, with Amy right behing him. Rouge mumbles something about going after someone else's treasure as she passes Knuckles, prompting him to take right after her post haste. Charmy mentions to Vector that they STILL haven't been paid yet. Eggman is seen slowly tip-toeing away, and Team Chaotix gives chase.
Omega picks up Metal in his arms, as Shadow looks on. A kinship, maybe? They all had similar agendas, after all.
To be the best.
Cool PSXPhile, thanks for that summary 
.
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What? Chaos?! Indeed, he acquires the data during the course of Team Rose's game, but I'm not quite sure WHERE he gets it from: Team Rose themselves, Froggy or Chocola? They all come into contact with Metal (as the fake Eggman) during the final scene.
I'm thinking most probably Froggy. Froggy was one with Chaos for quite a little while in Sonic Adventure 1 (Froggy had Chaos' tail throughout most of the game, for a start, and then later Eggman adds Froggy to Chaos 6), so it's not unpermissable that some of Chaos' D.N.A. was left as part off, or upon, Froggy.
As for the truth about Shadow, that Sonic Team haven't put much information about it in the game, it's probably deliberate to keep us just as interested in what the storyline of the next Sonic installment is as we all were about this one.
I agree that Froggy would be a likely canidate for where Chaos' data came from. Other possible sources:
Sonic: He battle Perfect Chaos, and nutralize the negative thoughts in chaos. Some of Chaos' dna could have soak into sonic skin.
Chacola/Cheese: It is very possible that the chao are chaos' desentants. So some chaos DNA could have been past down to the chao.
Shadow: He came out of the same project that created artifical Chaos, and flesh and blood counterpart to Perfect Chaos. Quite possible that some artifical chaos DNA is found in Shadow's DNA.
Okay so....
What does that tell us about the Sonic Battle shadow?
if anything at all?
Just assume it's the same Shadow, for now. There's no other reason to think he isn't the same one as in Heroes. Omega destroyed the rest, so there won't be anymore.
I agree that Chaos' data must of come from Froggy or possibly from the two chao. And since Metal only mentions Chaos during Team Rose's game, there's no reason to assume he got the data from any other team.
Actually, wouldn't Shadow make more sense for the Chaos data? Professor Gerald invented the Chao drives, thus showing he constantly experimented with Chaos energy. That research was most likely taken into account with the development of Project Shadow.
Chaos, the life-form. Not Chaos, the energy. o.o
But it's all the same energy, really, as Chaos lived off of the energy provided by the Chaos Emeralds. The Chaos drives attempted to emulate the energy, right?
...Argh. Gotta fix my avatar. ;_;
Not that I have a copy yet, but I'm sure any kind of Chao would have more on Chaos than Froggy.
And I'm not 100% sure if Chao actually lived off the Chaos Energy or not.
I'm pretty sure chaos data is got from some bizzare combination of froggy(once had chaos' tail?) and chocola(chao are likely the descendants of chaos).
I would now like to complain about some plot holes in Sonic Heroes.
Metal Sonic suddenly became freakishly powerful and locked up Eggman, deciding he was destined ruler of all life. What? How did this happen? I would guess it was some upgrade Eggman gave him that made him too intelligent and too strong. On that note why does Eggman never do anything anymore? In the past 3 games he was being used by someone (Chaos, Prof. Gerald, and now Metal Sonic.) When is he really going to be the villian again?
What was up with the newspaper article that team rose had showing Sonic holding froggy and chocola? When did that happen? Or was it (crazy theory alert) a fake newspaper created by Metal Sonic? Actually, that makes no sense. Seeing how Metal Sonic already had froggy and chocola. (Cheese and Chocola? Who thought up those names?)
Why do we still know nothing of Shadow? He is most likely a clone, or a robot, or (best guess) the real shadow (because he was held in a room all by himself away from the other clones) that Eggman somehow recovered. I really hope Sonic Team decides to tell us some day.
Well that's all I got. The plot has serious issues in this game.
Would anyone like to tell me the prize for getting all A rank in this game? I'd appreciate it.
It would seem Sonic Team can't see Eggman as the "big bad ultimate villain" he was previously, always introducing someone/something else that's even worse.
An Iizuka interview said that Metal Sonic was a "brand-new villain, very similar to Metal Sonic. We have the original designer here on campus who is updating the character...". There's a couple of ways one can take that comment. According to Heroes however, it was merely cosmetic: this is Metal Sonic, but changed. As to what changed him... perhaps an officially sanctioned strategy guide will tell. Or maybe the truth will be revealed once someone gets all A-Ranks (similar to how Sonic Battle's juiciest bits were revealed in text AFTER the game was completed once).
I tend to believe the news report was planted by Metal (remember, he's now a shapeshifter) to lure out the "Chaos data". Since he already had Froggy and Chocola, I suppose it would be Cheese he was after. **shrugs**
As for Shadow, we don't know the full truth because Sonic Team are jerks. 😛 Naw, actually... it's not all that dissimilar to Sonic, who's past is unknown.
And as you've read above, no one's discovered what you get for all A-Ranks. The fact that the game ASKS you to get them is suspect. Sonic Team WANTS you to take the challenge, but for what?
Actually, someone has. It only
| Spoilers (Select To Read)
Unlocks some Super Hard mode or something for Team Sonic. |
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He is most likely a clone, or a robot,
Maybe, because
| Spoilers (Select To Read) After Egg Albatross, Shadow finds a robot version of himself. |
Now about Liquid Metal Sonic, I think that Eggman might've got a hold of Chaos' DNA sometime in SADX and merged it up with Metal Sonic's structure(which may explain why he was in stasis).
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Now about Liquid Metal Sonic, I think that Eggman might've got a hold of Chaos' DNA sometime in SADX and merged it up with Metal Sonic's structure(which may explain why he was in stasis).
Ooo...you know I actually never thought about that, it's somewhat unlikely, but you could still be onto something there Doc!
*Imagines a Liquid-form DNA assimilating Silver Sonic*
Having Silver Sonic also merged with Chaos' DNA aswell as Metal Sonic would be good...but only because it'd be bringing Silver Sonic back...I'd rather Silver Sonic come back in a different way. After the royal butt-kickin' it sounds like Metal Sonic gets on Sonic Heroes, it would probably make more sense for it to be Silver Sonic in the next game rather than Metal Sonic due to the damage he's taken...but it's unlikely.
Anyhow...how did I get onto talking about Silver Sonic from someone making a comment about Metal Sonic possibly being mixed with some of Chaos' DNA?
Strange me. 
Going somewhat off topic, a storyline I would LOVE to see would be Metal Sonic teaming up with the robot Sonics from Sonic 2 and Sonic & Knuckles, and after them being beaten by Super Sonic, Metal destroying the other two and using there parts to become stronger. It would really highlight his obsession to defeat Sonic (although it would be a tad cliche').
My dream is for Silver Sonic to be reactivated and try to kill Metal Sonic, that is what my fan game is going to be about. I think Robotnik will tell Silver to kill Metal just to get even, that would be PERFECT. Boy this is getting off topic fast so I'll shut up now and make a new topic...
Ok, since I don't have much time left until my next class, I'm going to post my review on the game later in 5th period.
EDIT: Ok, I'm back and ready to post my thoughts on the storyline:
1. I thought the idea of fighting Metal Sonic as Eggman added a good twist. Technically, you ARE fighting him throughout the whole game (obviously).
2. Metal Sonic copying Chaos' data was sure shocking. How I think he copied his data was because of Froggy, which was already mentioned. Talk about heredity. >_>
3. Those Shadow clones were very vague, IMO. We don't even know what they were for and if they are the robots or if they were clones from the past. Very ambiguous.
4. Ever wondered who Metal Sonic copied before he went from his very original form to his new look? I'm wondering that myself. What made him wear all that stuff that we have seen? The cape? The "sleeves"? The anything else? Has he REALLY gone ridiculous in thinking he is a robot overlord?
5. I like to consider Knuckles and Tails super. IMO, I believe that Sonic Team recreated those super forms, since Super Knuckles and Super Tails were just replay value adding in S3&K. Looks can't be everything you know. But then, Super Sonic might have been able to give his share of power.
That could be true, I mean, Super Knuckles & Tails had no physical changes, only Super Sonic actually looked different to Sonic.
The same goes here in Heroes, unless Sonic Team specify otherwise, I'd like to say they were all Super...
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4. Ever wondered who Metal Sonic copied before he went from his very original form to his new look? I'm wondering that myself. What made him wear all that stuff that we have seen? The cape? The "sleeves"? The anything else? Has he REALLY gone ridiculous in thinking he is a robot overlord?
Sounds like Eggman added a smidge of ego into Metal Sonic's upgrade cocktail.
The "sleeves", chin guards and spikier spikes scream Mecha Sonic, circa Sonic 3. Perhaps Eggy finally scrapped the guy.
Oh yeah, before this goes any further: Sonic 2 and 3's robot Sonics are, for all intents and purposes, the same robot: Mecha Sonic.
That is all.
You can call them whatever you want, I call them all Metal Sonic regardless, but you gotta remember, they're all different models of each-other...
Actually, don't listen to me, I hope Sonic Team release a tech Manual for all the Metal Sonics, in the style of the Gundam Tech Manuals...
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1. I thought the idea of fighting Metal Sonic as Eggman added a good twist. Technically, you ARE fighting him throughout the whole game (obviously).
Yeah it was a good idea
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4. Ever wondered who Metal Sonic copied before he went from his very original form to his new look? I'm wondering that myself. What made him wear all that stuff that we have seen? The cape? The "sleeves"? The anything else? Has he REALLY gone ridiculous in thinking he is a robot overlord?
The spikes- might be from Mecha Sonic (from S3&K)
The Robe-Like sash- ???? probably designed it himself
Huge Armguards- might be from Mecha Sonic (from S3&K)
The Robot Overlord was his plan to over throw Eggman's army and armada. And it was his decent chance to kill Sonic
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I like to consider Knuckles and Tails super. IMO, I believe that Sonic Team recreated those super forms, since Super Knuckles and Super Tails were just replay value adding in S3&K. Looks can't be everything you know. But then, Super Sonic might have been able to give his share of power.
I think they should've made a new appearances for Knux and Tails. But when Team Sonic absorbed the power of the Chaos Emeralds I think that most of the energy was focused on Sonic.
I have playedf through the game and I would say that this Shadwo is definatly the Sa2 one.
First off, if it were a robot Metal Overlord (general term for the Metal Sonic here) wouldn't have registered it as "Ultimate Lifeform" while copying its data.
As to the clones, I suspect that this is the original because of the memory loss - Eggman probably would have filled with fake, albeit corrupted memories. PLus, being left behind at the base seems a good reason, the clones may be genetically altered like the clone troopers. It would make sense to keep the unaltered one there for future clonings. As to what Rouge said in the end, I have two theories (okay, I got one from someone else): she may have been saying it to get Omega to destroy all those "Eggman robots". He by now has fought alongside the particular Shadow long enough to trust him over the others. The other possobility is that there was a mistanslation: I believe I have heard that the Japanese words for artificial life form are also used for "robot" and thus it could translate either way. I am not sure as to this though, I heard it from someone on gamefaqs (no, not one 80% there who doesn't know what he's talking about - apologies to those members).
Or then, there's the simple explanation that Rouge doesn't know what she's talking about.
I hope that some of the clones were not on board that ship so we can have Shadow battling clones in the next game, although not to the point of a clone war.
Sonic Battle is based after Sonic Heroes.
In Sonic Battle the Shadow is almost most certainly a robot, which means the one in Heroes is also a robot.
What reasoning is they to believe Shadow is a robot?
Because he/it gets damaged, and there's talk about how well he's built, and he also begins to malfuction a little when damaged (displayed in Sonic Battle by the shaking picture and electrical sound effects).
It's possible he's the real Shadow however, but with a lot of his natural organs, etc, replaced with robotic equivalents, due to damage from his 'fall' on SA2, perhaps?
Either way, there's certainly something robotic in him...
"Oh yeah, before this goes any further: Sonic 2 and 3's robot Sonics are, for all intents and purposes, the same robot: Mecha Sonic."
They look completely different, and the Sonic 2 one was destroyed before Sonic & Knuckles. It should be assumed they are different robots.
And there is no robot Sonic in Sonic 3. 
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And there is no robot Sonic in Sonic 3.
Most people consider S3&K the real Sonic 3.
Knights of the chosen realm someone forgets that Shadow was created by Prof. Gerald so that means that he was built.
Did anyone besides me found it strange what Eggman gave the Chaotix as missions.Why would Eggman have them destroy all his robots.Omega holding Metal and Shadow looking on at the end was very interesting.Sonic Heroes 2 story development I think.
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They look completely different, and the Sonic 2 one was destroyed before Sonic & Knuckles.
That's as may be, but they attack identically and have the same name (Mecha Sonic). Also, robots can easily be rebuilt. Draw your own conclusions.
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And there is no robot Sonic in Sonic 3
Like Weird Egg said (but not exactly 
) S&K is merely Sonic 3 part 2, with all the stuff in it that they couldn't fit in in time for release. This is why S&K had lock-on - to make S3&K, the full Sonic 3. This is also why Sonic 3 is the only game that it properly locks on to (Knuckles in Sonic 2 is just a patch).
Most people consider S3&K the real Sonic 3.
It's a sort of "director's cut". The original plan was for a 36k "special edition" of S3 to be released after the original version, containing what we know as S3+K.
I don't know whether people responded by telling Sega that they didn't want to pay out money twice or Sega just wanted more money by getting the product out faster, but that's how S3 and S+K became two separate titles.
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Knights of the chosen realm someone forgets that Shadow was created by Prof. Gerald so that means that he was built.
Huh? Could you please rephrase that? It made no sense to me whatsoever 
.
or organically created. I mean, think Dtagon Ball Z (if youve ever seen it) Cell isnt a robot, but he was created using DNA, meaning he isnt a robot.
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"Oh yeah, before this goes any further: Sonic 2 and 3's robot Sonics are, for all intents and purposes, the same robot: Mecha Sonic."
They look completely different, and the Sonic 2 one was destroyed before Sonic & Knuckles. It should be assumed they are different robots.
And there is no robot Sonic in Sonic 3.
Wot Jman and Sam said before about Sonic 3 and the robot's names, and let me add that being "destroyed" doesn't necessarily mean a robot won't be back for another round. **points to Sonic Heroes' main villain.**
Also, if you actually paid close attention, you'd realize that the two robots have a few things in common, despite their outside appearance.
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or organically created. I mean, think Dtagon Ball Z (if youve ever seen it) Cell isnt a robot, but he was created using DNA, meaning he isnt a robot.
Organic creatures don't malfunction and have short-circuits when damaged. There has to be something robotic about the new Shadow.
Also, no, I haven't seen Dragonball Z...well, I've seen it but I don't watch it. It's not my sort of thing.
>They look completely different, and the Sonic 2 one was destroyed before Sonic & Knuckles. It should be assumed they are different robots.
It's proven by Japanese manuals that Sonic The Hedgehog 2 (For Mega Drive/Genesis*) & Sonic & Knuckles/Sonic 3& Knuckles both had a Mecha Sonic.
*Sonic The Hedgehog 2 for Game Gear had a similar robot named Silver Sonic, which is often what the one in Genesis/Mega Drive is incorrectly refered to as.
Can we focus on Shadow first, and then debate about what Sonic Robots are called what and appeared in what?!
If I go to eBay and buy Sonic The Hedgehog 3, is there going to be a robot Sonic in it? No!
It's proven by Japanese manuals that Sonic The Hedgehog 2 (For Mega Drive/Genesis*) & Sonic & Knuckles/Sonic 3& Knuckles both had a Mecha Sonic.
Actually, they call both mechanical Sonic, which sounds more like a description to me. Had Metal Sonic not been given a name they probably wouldve called him mechanical Sonic too. Just a description of what they are, so by Jman and Psx logic (them being the same because theyre both robot Sonics and attack the same way), I should believe Knuckles and Tikal are the same person because they attack the same way, and are both Echidnas. That makes so much sense (sarcasm).
Also, if you actually paid close attention, you'd realize that the two robots have a few things in common, despite their outside appearance.
If I actually paid attention? Who the hell are you to assume I didnt?
Put it this way, SA only had 2 robots--not 3. If there were more than 2 main Sonic robots, they would've put them in the game. 🙂
Oh, and Knux & Tikal don't attack the same save in SA2--which was probably just due to lack of time.
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If I go to eBay and buy Sonic The Hedgehog 3, is there going to be a robot Sonic in it? No!
If you go on eBay and buy "Sonic The Hedgehog 3", you'll be paying for what's essentially half a complete game.
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Actually, they call both mechanical Sonic, which sounds more like a description to me.
Exactly.
"Green" Hill.
"Marble" Garden.
"Hang" Castle.
"Metal/Mecha" Sonic.
We could go around calling it "the mechanical Sonic". But shortening it to "Mecha" Sonic accomplishes the same thing, with less effort.
And the guide did say "Mecha Sonic" in Japanese.
By-the-by, the robot from the Game Gear version of Sonic 2 was given the definite name of Mecha Sonic.
Um...what's this got to do with Sonic Heroes.
But to clear things up, this is what I call them.
S2 - Silver Sonic
S3K - Silver Sonic MKII
S2GG - Prototype Silver Sonic
SCD - Metal Sonic (the same one that's in all the others)
SA - Silver Sonic MKIII + Metal Sonic MKII (longer spikes)
But the Metal Sonic in SA1 was probably a prototype for the one in Heroes...
...
Well basically, IMO, there's only Silver and Metal Sonic, they're all diff
"But to clear things up, this is what I call them.
S2 - Silver Sonic
S3K - Silver Sonic MKII
S2GG - Prototype Silver Sonic
SCD - Metal Sonic (the same one that's in all the others)
SA - Silver Sonic MKIII + Metal Sonic MKII (longer spikes)"
That isn't clearing things up, that's just you stating your uneducated opinion. No offense.
Does anyone know where Team Dark got the idea to scan Eggman, I never saw any evidence that they thought it wasnt them. And then why couldnt Omega scan Shadow, that could have worked. Oh well...And I dont care WHAT you call the robot Sonics, it never really mattered to me as long as they are good bosses.
Actually, after finding that the Eggman piloting Egg Albatross was a fake, it would be logical for Omega to want to make sure that the one from Robot Storm was the real deal.
And by the way... this Metal Sonic stuff DOES have to do with Sonic Heroes. Metal Sonic is the bad guy!
