HyperSonic2003 wrote:
Yea I saw that thing on IGN, didn't read it though. I'm about to give up on Sega...seriously. I've got a bag of games to trade in at Gamestop...in that bag are, ShtH, Sonic Heroes, SA2: B[have 2 on DC] and SADX[have 1 on DC]. I'm keeping SMC and SGC...because the games in there...are *gasps* good. As for floating Sonic...yea it's somewhat required.
Now, now, no need to give up on Sega when you meant to say "I'm about to give up on Sonic" You know Sega is more than Sonic
Right you are Ashide, but it seems that's all they're caring about. No more Shenmue, no more Virtual On[oh dear gaming gods...please let it return]...they've like taken away all of their series I cared about. All I had was Sonic, notice the word had, and now he's just sticking around getting worse and worse. But I most definitely agree with your comment about making Sonic appear fast Ashide. I've actually brought this up in other topics throughout the years. I haven't played Okami, but it sounds about like what I was conveying. ake the surroundings move slower and keeping Sonic at a controllable pace...like the time clock on Brawl and it slows everyone down you know? Sonic stays himself, but the others are slowed down to some degree. It would work fine for me, if they can really get it going correctly. Here's hoping though.
Razorsaw wrote:
And if that's what pickyness and inflexibility get us, I'm not sure I can sympathize with the fandom.
It's not just the fandom that feels this way. Also, who says they need to drop all of the new bells and whistles if they ever achive classic Sonic gameplay in 3D or go back to in in 2D? Overall, I just want Sonic to be more controllable than he is in Unleashed.
And about Sunshine, yes it sold well and scored fairly well, but I still remember the backlash after the honeymoon over a new Mario game was over and many people consider it to be one of black sheeps of the Mario platformers. While 5.5 million WW is a lot, but compared to other Mario platformers it's one of the lowest selling ones not including complilations. And I remember Galaxy being a response to that backlash.
And Vulpix, I was talking about the sense of momentum-based speed physics found in ME that's the closest thing the Classic Sonic compared to current Sonic. Perhaps the 2D flash version of it better illustrates what I'm talking about.
http://www.bornegames.com/mirrors-edge-beta/
HyperSonic2003 wrote:
Right you are Ashide, but it seems that's all they're caring about. No more Shenmue, no more Virtual On[oh dear gaming gods...please let it return]...they've like taken away all of their series I cared about. All I had was Sonic, notice the word had, and now he's just sticking around getting worse and worse. But I most definitely agree with your comment about making Sonic appear fast Ashide. I've actually brought this up in other topics throughout the years. I haven't played Okami, but it sounds about like what I was conveying. ake the surroundings move slower and keeping Sonic at a controllable pace...like the time clock on Brawl and it slows everyone down you know? Sonic stays himself, but the others are slowed down to some degree. It would work fine for me, if they can really get it going correctly. Here's hoping though.
But they have new great IPs such as Valkryia Chronicles and the Ryū ga Gotoku(Yakuza) series, plus they are turning into a great publisher for upcoming original games such as the Conduit, Alpha Protocol, and all three Platinum games. Also Sega is finally publishing a Shining Force game that is actually an SRPG. There are a whole lot of games, I know I'm missing, but let me just say that Sega kick more arse at TGS than the usual darling that's Squeenix. This is coming from someone who had been indifferent to Sega mid-to-late last gen.
. All I had was Sonic, notice the word had, and now he's just sticking around getting worse and worse. But I most definitely agree with your comment about making Sonic appear fast Ashide. I've actually brought this up in other topics throughout the years. I haven't played Okami, but it sounds about like what I was conveying. ake the surroundings move slower and keeping Sonic at a controllable pace...like the time clock on Brawl and it slows everyone down you know? Sonic stays himself, but the others are slowed down to some degree. It would work fine for me, if they can really get it going correctly. Here's hoping though.
Ugh. The last thing Sonic needs is even slower enemies. All of his enemies are already slow and stupid. Sonic needs fast enemies.
So I see...you have educated me. Thanks. 
It's not just the fandom that feels this way.
Widespread pickyness is still pickyness.
There's also widespread pickyness on Heroes, but it's done a marvelous job of doing what it was made to do and was profitable for Sega. So once again we come to the age old conflict between what's good for fanboys and what's good for the actual people keeping this business alive.
And I remember Galaxy being a response to that backlash.
Got a source?
and Vulpix, I was talking about the sense of momentum-based speed physics found in ME that's the closest thing the Classic Sonic compared to current Sonic. Perhaps the 2D flash version of it better illustrates what I'm talking about.
Wow. Just, wow. I want that minigame on the DS.
It's not just the fandom that feels this way.
Widespread pickyness is still pickyness.
There's also widespread pickyness on Heroes, but it's done a marvelous job of doing what it was made to do and was profitable for Sega. So once again we come to the age old conflict between what's good for fanboys and what's good for the actual people keeping this business alive.
Yeah, it was so profitable for Sega that they decided to make a Sonic Heroes 2 despite the complaints about the game from the gaming public. Oh wait...
And about that source, unfortunately, I can't find it at the moment, I just remember reading a old Nintendo article on Neogaf that Sunshine was the result of Miyamoto wanting to try something different with the franchise but it wasn't exactly well-recieved as he though it would so Galaxy was kind of a new and yet old start for them.
They didn't make a Sonic Heroes 2, no, but they did make a game starring Shadow, and a bunch of other stuff, so it didn't really discourage them from Sonic as a whole, really. What, just because they didn't make another game with team mechanics, it means that they saw it as a crushing failure?
And about that source, unfortunately, I can't find it at the moment, I just remember reading a old Nintendo article on Neogaf that Sunshine was the result of Miyamoto wanting to try something different with the franchise but it wasn't exactly well-recieved as he though it would so Galaxy was kind of a new and yet old start for them.
Generally, as a rule, I don't take "I'm remembering" statements seriously. It's nothing against you, but they're not really what I'd call reliable.
Either way, I wouldn't call Bowser Jr. becoming a mainstay of the franchise and FLUDD reappearing Brawl to be supportive of the idea that Sunshine is a "Black Sheep." Is Wind Waker a black sheep because they made Twilight Princess?
Well, yes. There are actually a few similiarities between Sunshine and WW. It has a unique gimmick involving water, and some people resent it for that, wishing they'd just kept the same formula as the game before it.
Well, yes. There are actually a few similiarities between Sunshine and WW. It has a unique gimmick involving water, and some people resent it for that, wishing they'd just kept the same formula as the game before it.
So what if some fans resent it? They were successful. If fans had full reign over franchises they'd run them into ground. Not wanting to ever try anything new and all. A little experimentation is never a bad thing.
They didn't make a Sonic Heroes 2, no, but they did make a game starring Shadow, and a bunch of other stuff, so it didn't really discourage them from Sonic as a whole, really. What, just because they didn't make another game with team mechanics, it means that they saw it as a crushing failure?
The fact that they made Sonic games after Sonic the Hedgehog '06 is a sign that a crushing failure doesn't mean the end.
The main problem with every 3D title since the Dreamcast died (and arguably before) up to Unleashed (as far as I'm aware) is that Sega didn't care about their quality, at all. They allowed game breaking bugs and glitches, age old problems to become worse and worse, constantly introduced new characters and new gameplay mechanics that were never wanted, not making the core gameplay work, is a clear indication that people upstairs didn't care.
And don't say just because a game is profitable it's a success, sure, it means games like Virtua Fighter 5 and Valkyria Chronicles can be made, but SEGA also released a fair number of compilations last generation, and has always had Virtua Fighter raking in the money, and now Yakuza has proven very popular, you'd think they'd invest a lot more into the character that symbolized the company. What's more I highly doubt the creative people in the company just want to be their because it sells well.
Well, yes. There are actually a few similiarities between Sunshine and WW. It has a unique gimmick involving water, and some people resent it for that, wishing they'd just kept the same formula as the game before it.
And Transformer fans say everything should be like a 20 year old cartoon.
Micheal Bay's movie still made loads and loads of money.
Well, yes. There are actually a few similiarities between Sunshine and WW. It has a unique gimmick involving water, and some people resent it for that, wishing they'd just kept the same formula as the game before it.
And Transformer fans say everything should be like a 20 year old cartoon.
Micheal Bay's movie still made loads and loads of money.
Please tell me you don't believe something is good just because it made money. Because you're making it sound like that's the defining attribute of a quality product.
Tell me, is the Wii the greatest gaming machine of all time due to how well it sold even though it has about 1 title per every 200 that's worth any merit? Or is the Dreamcast a terrible system because it failed in the market despite having some incredible games and landmark technical and creative achievements?
Well, yes. There are actually a few similiarities between Sunshine and WW. It has a unique gimmick involving water, and some people resent it for that, wishing they'd just kept the same formula as the game before it.
And Transformer fans say everything should be like a 20 year old cartoon.
Micheal Bay's movie still made loads and loads of money.
Please tell me you don't believe something is good just because it made money. Because you're making it sound like that's the defining attribute of a quality product.
Tell me, is the Wii the greatest gaming machine of all time due to how well it sold even though it has about 1 title per every 200 that's worth any merit? Or is the Dreamcast a terrible system because it failed in the market despite having some incredible games and landmark technical and creative achievements?
No, but it certainly complicates the issue. Audience response shouldn't be discounted, especially nowadays when professional game reviews start to show little to no structure or justification for the scores they get.
This is a big, complex issue, and who decides whether something is a success isn't as easily determined as what you're saying it is. So goodness is defined by the elite?
When the elite is a bunch of professional gamers whose scoring system breaks down under any kind of critical scrutiny, and the likes of people on this messageboard and Kotaku, then I see a problem.
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B Vulpix wrote:
Well, yes. There are actually a few similiarities between Sunshine and WW. It has a unique gimmick involving water, and some people resent it for that, wishing they'd just kept the same formula as the game before it.
So what if some fans resent it? They were successful. If fans had full reign over franchises they'd run them into ground. Not wanting to ever try anything new and all. A little experimentation is never a bad thing.
Yes, though there is always that risk of a fan outcry or alienation for some of your audience if a familar entry feels a bit too different to them. Just look at the reacted Final Fantasy VIII recieved over the years. Even though it was successful financially for Square and it took the series in a different direction that hasn't been seen since the second installment, people either love it or consider it one of the worst entries to the series.
Razorsaw wrote:
No, but it certainly complicates the issue. Audience response shouldn't be discounted, especially nowadays when professional game reviews start to show little to no structure or justification for the scores they get.
Since you said the audience response shouldn't be discounted then I hope you mean the negative responses to a game also.
Yes, though there is always that risk of a fan outcry or alienation for some of your audience if a familar entry feels a bit too different to them. Just look at the reacted Final Fantasy VIII recieved over the years. Even though it was successful financially for Square and it took the series in a different direction that hasn't been seen since the second installment, people either love it or consider it one of the worst entries to the series.
Wut? You means people dont consider 10-2 to be the worst of the series? I must be living under a heavy rock.
oh well.
And I gotta Admit...*looks at Nuts & Bolts* Damn you, Rare. Why did you change a formula that wasn't broken! Making changes is ok. But not so far out of field next time k thx?
Looking back at 06. I believe Unleashed was a huge success. Even if half of the game is undesirable by most at least it isn't broken. Its a step in the right direction. Who ever is in charge now might be more inclined to listen.
You do know Sunshine sold 5.5 millions copies, making it the third best selling 3D Mario game behind Galaxy, right? Not to mention it has a Metacritic score 92 .
Seem to me Sunshine wasn't the failure you claim it was.
Incorrect. Mario Sunshine was by far the worst selling straight-up Mario game that Nintendo and Miyamoto have ever produced, with the exception of the Mario Land games for Game Boy, (my guess for that is because you didn't really find the "hardcore" gamer on the Game Boy much, despite Game Boys selling a bajillion units across the globe).
And before you say "Mario World 2", keep in mind that Mario World 2 sold 4 million as opposed to Sunshine's 5.5 million in the last dying breaths of the SNES' life, as the game was released in 1996, the same year we saw the N64 roll out in full force with Mario 64. Mario Sunshine had a chance to sell well over that in five - count'em - five years, before the new-print plug was pulled for GCN titles, including Player's Choice titles.
SUPER NINJA EDIT! - Keep in Mind, Mario Galaxy has sold 6 million in ONE YEAR. One itty, bitty year! With an estimated 3 years left of Wii production within the normal console life cycle, it will most likely reach 10 mil, even with slowing sales as the buzz dies.
You best be knowing what you're getting into before you bring up comparisons with me, there, bud. I may not be Mr. Expert, but I'll be damned if I don't know what I'm talking about.
As for your Metacritic score, almost every single publication has looked back on that title and scratched their heads wondering why they gave it the score they did. Almost every major editor in chief of every gaming site and magazine have given backlash to Mario Sunshine, and every editor and critic, across the globe, continues to sigh in disbelief as Sonic game after Sonic game keeps getting churned out, only to erupt in sales just because Sonic is as close to an icon like Mario to where little kids and parents will buy their little snot-nosed kids these games just because he is on the box. These games have not been selling on quality at all.
The only good thing to come out of Unleashed, and again, you will hear and read this everywhere, is that the new (thank god) lead developer of the game produced this game with open ears and open eyes and a feel to try and make something new. Unfortunately, he didn't really hit the nail on the head, but that was only with half his game. He is responding to fans, something that hasn't been done in... well, ever, really. When was the last time you heard Yuji Naka, when he was on a roll with the franchise, talk about the fans and their wants while he was taking the Sonic name and running it into the mud? Oh wait, you didn't, because around that time he was too busy milking the hell out of Phantasy Star (all versions, including Universe as he worked on that) and making THOSE fans happy, (well, the Japanese side server fans, anyway).
So don't go kissing Sega's ass based on their "profitable" numbers alone. Yes, a company is in business to stay afloat and make money. I understand that. I work for freakin' GameStop, for gods sakes. I also know that it's the fans that also build the house you live in, when it comes to keeping you afloat. Sure, mindless sheep will be herd to your product, but the ones seeking newgrounds will stray. Eventually these mindless sheep will catch wind of another herder, and you are left with nothing since you didn't try to keep them completely happy. Sega knows this, the new head-guy knows this, the critics and the industry knows this.
PS: As for "listening to the fans", it's true. Ever fallen in Unleashed, hit a wall, and you actually BOUNCED off it as opposed to clipping through it like every other 3D Sonic games past? During our GameStop conference, after test playing the game in September, they asked me what I thought and what I was looking for in the game. I'm not going to go through my entire tirade, but one of my please was polish. No lame clipping, even in death, was one of them. Also, if you land in water, fulfill the finished feeling by giving at least a splash, (that didn't make it, unfortunately). But there is no clipping!!! Woohoo! You're welcome.
PSS: Yeah, I'm sure that wasn't just MY doing, but I'll be damned if I didn't make it damn clear to them. I wish I would've name-dropped HQ, as well. Maybe they'd checked us out? Doubt it.
That site also says that Smash Bros. Melee sold 7.09 million, and the Wind Waker sold 3.07 million.
Is Sunshine's sales because Sunshine was hated or was it because it was part of the sales patterns of the Gamecube?
Wow so Mario Sunshine didn't sell as well. That automatically means it sucks?
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Wow so Mario Sunshine didn't sell as well. That automatically means it sucks?
IMO, it sucked.
Galaxy > Sunshine
You do know Sunshine sold 5.5 millions copies, making it the third best selling 3D Mario game behind Galaxy, right? Not to mention it has a Metacritic score 92 .
Seem to me Sunshine wasn't the failure you claim it was.Incorrect. Mario Sunshine was by far the worst selling straight-up Mario game that Nintendo and Miyamoto have ever produced, with the exception of the Mario Land games for Game Boy, (my guess for that is because you didn't really find the "hardcore" gamer on the Game Boy much, despite Game Boys selling a bajillion units across the globe).
And before you say "Mario World 2", keep in mind that Mario World 2 sold 4 million as opposed to Sunshine's 5.5 million in the last dying breaths of the SNES' life, as the game was released in 1996, the same year we saw the N64 roll out in full force with Mario 64. Mario Sunshine had a chance to sell well over that in five - count'em - five years, before the new-print plug was pulled for GCN titles, including Player's Choice titles.
Incorrect. Read my post again. I said 3D Mario . Never did a I said all Mario games. Since there are only 3 3D Mario game that makes Sunshine the third best selling one.
SUPER NINJA EDIT! - Keep in Mind, Mario Galaxy has sold 6 million in ONE YEAR. One itty, bitty year! With an estimated 3 years left of Wii production within the normal console life cycle, it will most likely reach 10 mil, even with slowing sales as the buzz dies.
Well of course it sold 6 million copies in one year. When 98% of Wii games are crappy shovelware the only good games(Metroid Prime 3 and Galaxy) are gonna sell like pancakes.
Well of course it sold 6 million copies in one year. When 98% of Wii games are crappy shovelware the only good games(Metroid Prime 3 and Galaxy) are gonna sell like pancakes.
I could say the same fantarded assumption for the Gamecube--except replace the phrase "crappy shovelware" with "lack of games". HA HA HA!
Gamestation (UK store) are selling the 360 version of Unleashed for £19.58 now.
I caved in and got it.
That site also says that Smash Bros. Melee sold 7.09 million, and the Wind Waker sold 3.07 million.
Is Sunshine's sales because Sunshine was hated or was it because it was part of the sales patterns of the Gamecube?
Yay, taking stuff out of context! No. We are comparing Mario sales, period. Not selling patterns of the Gamecube platform. If you want reasoning for the sales figures, well, Smash was pretty much the best selling title on the console, period. Wind Waker only sold 3 mil because of the fact of the art change and fans went up in an uproar and never forgave the game or Miyamoto for the style change, thus never buying the game. Here's another comparison: Twilight Princess, across both Wii and GCN, has already doubled that of what Wind Waker did, and is close, if it hasn't already, to outselling Ocarina of Time.
It doesn't prove anything, since it's all a matter of opinion, but it damn well definitely leans towards the popular opinion that change is not always welcome when it comes to video game franchises. That's why Sunshine sold the worst out of all the major Mario games, that's why Wind Waker was easily overtaken, and that's why, while Sega makes money off of Sonic related games, the fans are never pleased, and sales of their games never boom, never sky rocket, and don't have a long shelf life. Why? It's always changing course, alienating their core crowd; we're not even talking about quality of games, but of course, that doesn't help either.
There are exceptions, however. Look at Sonic Chronicles. Excellent game, positive marks almost across the board, hit the RPG element on the head. Is it selling well? No, not really. Why is that? It's because it's too different. You alienated the core fans who never really wanted an RPG, and already have a bad taste in their mouths after Rush Adventure; you've alienated the casual market by being too different and unexpected, (aka kids expecting another run-of-the-mill Sonic game); you've alienated the RPG crowd because it's a Sonic game, which that alone nowaday is good enough reason to stay away from anything that has the Blue Dud's name and face on it.
SHADONIC wrote:
Incorrect. Read my post again. I said 3D Mario . Never did a I said all Mario games. Since there are only 3 3D Mario game that makes Sunshine the third best selling one.SUPER NINJA EDIT! - Keep in Mind, Mario Galaxy has sold 6 million in ONE YEAR. One itty, bitty year! With an estimated 3 years left of Wii production within the normal console life cycle, it will most likely reach 10 mil, even with slowing sales as the buzz dies.
Well of course it sold 6 million copies in one year. When 98% of Wii games are crappy shovelware the only good games(Metroid Prime 3 and Galaxy) are gonna sell like pancakes.
1. That would then make it the last place 3D mario game, then, yes? Thus the worst selling 3D Mario game. Kind of proving my point there, thanks.
2. In return, when the entire Gamecube library is only 2% (exaggeration) that of today's Wii's library, and possibly 5% of the current installed user base, everyone should have picked up Mario Sunshine, correct?
No, of course not. That's not how it works, and your statement holds no merrit. If you want hard hitting facts, by "patterns", sales of the top Nintendo titles should be selling closer to 3 to 1 compared to Gamecube's user base at 20 mil, given that there will soon be 50 million Wii's in households. But it's not. The Wii is reaching a bigger audience that I have ever seen in my entire 20 years of gaming, and unfortunately, these people are here for the quick pick-up-and-play experience of the Wii, thus your "98%" (exaggeration) shovelware remark, which I don't blame you on that comment at all, since I feel the sameway. Believe it or not, the shovelware sells at a fairly moderate pace. Why else would companies, (Ubisoft, I'm looking at you), keep churning out the same old song and dance over, and over, and over. It's WHY we now see a freakin' Game Party 2 and, good lord, a spin-off, ALREADY, of Carnival Games, involving mini golf.
It's because of that reason, that we are seeing relatively low sales of the big N games. Sure, they are selling like pancakes, in comparison to the prior generation titles, but the shovelware is not the reason why. It's because of their quality. That alone is why people keep coming back to those Nintendo titles. We have the hardcore that have Wii's, and the new audience that, by word of mouth, have jumped on these titles, and hopefully, means they have also fallen in love with them and "upconverts them" from crap games to good games.
And holy @#%$!, I can't believe I just defended the casual market. Yuck.
Anywhozenwhats, my point is, change doesn't always bring people in (Sunshine and Wind Waker sales low), continued quality always does and gives people the courage to try something new, (Sunshine and Windwaker sales still high either way for the fan backlash), and no quality will lose your sales and continued support, (hell, just look around in these forums. I think we're all jaded as hell).
To me, Unleashed did what it had to to spark hope in the franchise for me. It's not gonna happen overnight, and hell, knowing Sega, it more than likely won't happen at all, but I'm hoping this means a return to better games, and the teams listening to their fans even more.
I'm thinking of buying Unleashed today. My mum recently won a free PS3 in some competition she automatically became involved in by buying a plasma TV, so that's kinda awesome. But dammit, I don't even remember if Unleashed is available on the PS3 or not. That's how little I've been paying attention to Unleashed. I've got a Wii, but my games for it aren't working for some crappy unknown reason. I could get my Wii checked out/fixed or even replaced with a new one (for the SECOND time, believe it or not!), but I'd rather do that later and just play Unleashed on my PS3. Doesn't the PS3 version of Unleashed get extra levels or some crap like that? So getting Unleashed for my PS3 might be a better purchase. I don't even know why I'm so keen to get my hands on Unleashed since the Sonic franchise has been disappointing me ever since Heroes. 
Unleashed for PS3 is out on the 10th, Rish.
I presume that's worldwide too? Guess I'll hang in there a bit longer.
I've....totally lost track of what this argument started off being about. So basically some of us are saying "Change is bad because the fans won't buy it"
And the other side is saying "Change is good it keeps things fresh and fans shouldn't be such picky little bi***es about every little aspect"
Well I agree change is good in a series where more of the same can get boring over time. And usually the entry that tries to break the mold is the black sheep. Like Sunshine. And even Windwaker. But I could care less in Windwaker's case because thats my favorite Zelda game anyway. My second will probably end up being Twilight Princess after I beat it. And I think Unleashed is a success not because its different but because its not broken. I'd rather play as werehog than another level of 06 ever again. But I know there are people here who'd rather play 06 in its entirety all over again than play a single werehog stage. *shrug*
Its really the execution that I don't like. I don't trust Sonic Team as a compitent game developer to take an idea in a certain direction and make it good. The werehog stages could have been better. They really could have been. There's no reason besides maybe laziness, that they didn't put in more variety in the gameplay. So its like...yeah. Zelda- change? Sure I'll go for it. Sonic- change? Eeeeeh not really. Sonic Team aren't the best fliers. I'd rather stay here on the ground where its safe.
Man Jin, I would love to pick apart every single one of you points from why Sonic Chronicles wasn't much of a high seller(it recieved mixed reviews/impression/possible bad-word-of-mouth than universial acclaim) to Ubisoft crapware being successful on the Wii(it isn't, thankfully, however they are successful on the DS, unfortunately) but er,,,it's getting really off topic. 
At least this no Console LIST WARZ! happened in this thread, yet.
But to get semi-back on topic I thought the hub worlds in Unleashed were more lively and had more personality than the bland worlds in Chronicles. I think these hubs would have been more well-recieved had they appeared in a Sonic RPG.
>.> Or if Chronicles was a live action RPG on a console that used those hubworlds *shot*
Yay, taking stuff out of context! No. We are comparing Mario sales, period. Not selling patterns of the Gamecube platform. If you want reasoning for the sales figures, well, Smash was pretty much the best selling title on the console, period. Wind Waker only sold 3 mil because of the fact of the art change and fans went up in an uproar and never forgave the game or Miyamoto for the style change, thus never buying the game. Here's another comparison: Twilight Princess, across both Wii and GCN, has already doubled that of what Wind Waker did, and is close, if it hasn't already, to outselling Ocarina of Time.
So... the biggest name games for Nintendo's Gamecube console having similar sales numbers that are lower than their appearances on other consoles doesn't mean ANYTHING at all? But fine, let's take this game out the context of its generation and compare it to everything else that occured at different points in time. That seems fair.
Seriously. Chronicles isn't enough to make me buy a DS. I just don't dig handhelds. Oh well. Since there is going to be a sequel....that might be enough to push me. But muuuuuuurhur. Handhelds... I wish I still loved Pokemon.
There is no official confirmation of a SC sequel, just that they are planning a script if a sequel comes into fruitation.
Also had we recieved Super Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess early on the GCN instead of SMS and WW, the Gamecube probably would have been more successful than it was. I mean these franchises are system sellers.
And what the heck is a live action RPG?
*laughs* Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Kingdom Hearts o_o
Wait maybe Live action is the totaly wrong word for it.
Non-turn based I meant to say.
wow. I said Live-Action RPG. But those are scary. Trust me I've seen one in action.
So playing it. Lots of likes and dislikes.
Likes - The new condensed hub stages have much more character
The music
The bastardized versions of real world places
The human designs. Federica (Spagonia)is hot
The dialogue between Sonic and Eggman
Professor Pickle: He is my new hero.
I do like how eyeball bursting fast the daytime stuff is.
The Werehog Gameplay. Its not overly amazing, but I would buy the %%%* out of Ristar 3D made from a more platform orientated version of this gameplay.
Dislikes
Chip. He is like The Great Gazoo (From The Flintstones fame) meets Jerry (from Tom and Jerry fame). And throw in Scrappy Doo. Christ, I really @+%%!%% hate him. It might be because its like Sonic traded Tails for a younger model...
The Werehog - In a strictly story based terms, it just feels un-necessary.
Why does the Ice Cream guy and Professor Pickle sound like Knuckles? :
Enemy design.
Sonic controls so terribly in the day time.
Why in the name of @@!$ do I need to buy a tv, bookshelf and a gramophone to play the stuff I unlock?
Hub areas need more character cameos, I wanna be like: Holy crap I found Big fishing over there!
Though I like the daytime stuff, its very hold right to win.
i've been doing some of the town missions, there's a series of missions where you have to save the two ghosts from Night of the Werehog. I am not sure if the female ghost is in the game... time will tell
Shamar is my favourite town stage. It makes me want to play Prince of Persia Sands of Time
Also had we recieved Super Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess early on the GCN instead of SMS and WW, the Gamecube probably would have been more successful than it was. I mean these franchises are system sellers.
While it's fun to imagine, what exactly makes Twilight Princess different from FLUDD? I mean, how is a wolf different from a water pack on the scale of "changing things"?
Also had we recieved Super Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess early on the GCN instead of SMS and WW, the Gamecube probably would have been more successful than it was. I mean these franchises are system sellers.
While it's fun to imagine, what exactly makes Twilight Princess different from FLUDD? I mean, how is a wolf different from a water pack on the scale of "changing things"?
Simple, the Wolf in Twilight Princess didn't play too different from regular Link, and it was clear early on that the majority of the game was OoC2 in terms of gameplay and art design. What's more the Wolf was rather symbolic of that particular Link, or perhaps Link in general, usually out as the lone hero with nothing but courage and determination at the start.
FLUDD, however, changed the Mario platforming style, and the overall game design. Mario 64 was about traversing 3D free roaming levels through new and improved 3D platforming gameplay, Sunshine was about cleaning up paint in 3D free roaming levels, with some none FLUDD platforming on the side. This is the sort of thing where people like myself ask why Ninty didn't make a new character for the game, and/or universe, as it wasn't bad in it's own right...just not what a major Mario title should be.
Side note, Wind Waker is my favourite Zelda, so I don't view change as bad, just change when the game needs fixing first.
The wolf didn't play different? He used senses Link didn't have, couldn't use Link's weapons or any of his tools, moved differently, and had a completely different way of attacking.
Meh whatever even with Fludd Sunshine had plenty of platforming. It's still a definate Mario game. Full of flips and stars and toads and....other Mario type things.
I think a better argument would be to look at the newest Banjo Kazooie game. WHY is that a BK game? Its more like an entirely new game with Banjo thrown in to drive a car. All the platforming is gone. You can't use Kazooie for team attacks or manuvers. Banjo is flat out useless on foot because the levels are too big. The game castrates you into driving a car I kid you not.
Why didn't Rare just make up some new characters and start a new franchise? When I play Nuts & Bolts I have to pretty much tell myself I'm not playing a BK game. When I played Sunshine I knew it was a Mario game + gameplay twist.
The wolf didn't play different? He used senses Link didn't have, couldn't use Link's weapons or any of his tools, moved differently, and had a completely different way of attacking.
Didn't play too different. The point being that while there was a difference in how he worked, it was ultimately at the same overall gameplay design, rather than a completely different concept all together.
The Wolf gameplay is still playing the game Link always played.
The human designs. Federica (Spagonia)is hot
Professor Pickle: He is my new hero.
Why does the Ice Cream guy and Professor Pickle sound like Knuckles? :
Enemy design.
Hub areas need more character cameos, I wanna be like: Holy crap I found Big fishing over there!
Though I like the daytime stuff, its very hold right to win.
--No love for Lilli(Spagonia), John? I wonder if there is Rule 34 stuff of the human girls of this game. I know it exist for that ghost girl in that Night of the Werehog short.
--Ilike Prof. Pickle too. I would mind him appearing in future Sonic titles and I usually don't say that about Sonic's growing cast of characters.
--Same VA
--Speaking of that, Gaia's Minions looks like they belong in a Kingdom Hearts game much more than a Sonic one.
--I would have liked more funny cartoon animals in the hubs, period.
--Many of the secret optional day stages have a bit more platforming than the regular ones.
Just outta curiosity, Ashide, Jin said this game gave him hope for the series; does it give you any hope, I mean do you think if the new director got the daytime stages pretty well, does he give you any hope that he could lead a great game later on?
At this point, the thing that will give me hope for this series at all is that for the next console Sonic game after Sonic Swords, Sonic the Hedgehog will be the only playable character and he doesn't come bundled with any un-Sonic-like gimmicks like swords, Were-creatures, medal collecting,etc. Just a back to the basics and polished rendition of a more managable Sonic gameplay without any of this extra bloat.
However, the interviews I read from them doesn't give me any hope that this will ever happen sometime in the future. =/
The human designs. Federica (Spagonia)is hot
Professor Pickle: He is my new hero.
Why does the Ice Cream guy and Professor Pickle sound like Knuckles? :
Enemy design.
Hub areas need more character cameos, I wanna be like: Holy crap I found Big fishing over there!
Though I like the daytime stuff, its very hold right to win.
--No love for Lilli(Spagonia), John? I wonder if there is Rule 34 stuff of the human girls of this game. I know it exist for that ghost girl in that Night of the Werehog short.
--Ilike Prof. Pickle too. I would mind him appearing in future Sonic titles and I usually don't say that about Sonic's growing cast of characters.
--Same VA
--Speaking of that, Gaia's Minions looks like they belong in a Kingdom Hearts game much more than a Sonic one.
--I would have liked more funny cartoon animals in the hubs, period.
--Many of the secret optional day stages have a bit more platforming than the regular ones.
Oh yeah. A Lili is fine too. I couldn't believe they actually rule 34'd the ghost girl either. Or maybe I just didn't want it to happen...
I did kinda guess they were the same VA. I C+P the thoughts from another forum and the emoticon was meant to be this guy: 
Also one more like and dislike
I do like the animation in the cutscenes now. It just seems a cut above Rouge constantly waving at someone.
The game does feel a bit more bloated than the other Sonic games with hub worlds. Maybe its the constantly returning back to Pickle though.
Eggmanland is a friggin' test of my patience. Why does this level had to be so dang long with so many Kaizo Sonic parts?! 
I'm curious if you die during any of the final boss fights if you need to do Eggmanland all over again. That would really really suck hard. XD I think that level will be remembered as one of the worst Sonic levels ever. Even the final level in Sonic Heroes is nowhere as bad as that.
To my knowledge (Wii/PS2 version), if you die during the last two fights, you don't need to repeat the Eggmanland stage.
^Someone confirm that this also happens in the 360 version of this game.
Eggmanland is a friggin' test of my patience. Why does this level had to be so dang long with so many Kaizo Sonic parts?!
So in other words, why did the last level return to its roots (if it is the last level)
