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have you noticed (you obviously have) the way 4Kids shortens or edits sences in Sonic X, like when Emerl dies, they recolor the oil to look like water, I think they did this because they possible thought the oil would look like blood to people watching, as well as shorten the crying Cream did after Emerl died, or when Sonic returns home, they shorten the secne where Tails yells Sonic's name, or when Amy starts to run back to her place when she sees Sonic headed that way, just to name a few, can you think of any?
I nevr did see the dubbed episode 38. I didn't want to. Instead I watched the sub. After reading all that 4KIDS had done, I now officially despise them!
Never watch one-piece then, you'd go catatonic then...
Unfortunately, that's the same with all dubs, you can usually expect a scene or two be edited out or changed, whether because they find the scene to be too violent or not kid-friendly. Of course, this is why the sub will always be better than the dub, because you get to see the episodes how they were meant to be, without any changes.
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Never watch one-piece then, you'd go catatonic then...
I actually read a few of the original Shonen Jump manga, and then when I heart it was on Fox Box, I did a double take because I couldn't see how they could clean it up...despite being identical to the manga, they managed to clean all the blood and chop it up something awful. It's not so much 4kids fault as it is the overall Western view of what is "age appropriate".
Even tame old Pokmon had a famous scene where James wore a bikini disguise with big heaving breasts. Obviously that didn't make it over to the Kids WB cut.
Even alot of shojou (young girls) anime and manga have lots of little impled sexuality, and even lesbian-ish themes. Best example if you can find it is Steel Angel Kurumi 2: obviously for young girls, but some episodes have been rated as high as MA in America. Go figure.
Don't blame the publishers, blame society.
Any Aussies, Canadians, or Brits: how is the censorship situation in your areas?
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Unfortunately, that's the same with all dubs, you can usually expect a scene or two be edited out or changed, whether because they find the scene to be too violent or not kid-friendly.
That's not true, there are a lot of faithful dubs out there.
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Of course, this is why the sub will always be better than the dub, because you get to see the episodes how they were meant to be, without any changes.
Also not really true, some subtitled versions of foreign cartoons can still have cut scenes and visual edits and overlays.
There are MANY excellent dubs...just not on TV...
The main problem with 4Kids, Funimation, and Bandai (responsible for most of the saturday cartoon anime) is that most of their stuff is done for either broadcast or standard premium TV.
The FCC regulations get pretty crazy with over-the-air television, and it's amazaing some times what gets cut and what stays. Premium TV isn't really under FCC content control, but the networks do have their own self regulations and usally set lines based on demographics models. Digital cable and many newer satelite channels do exercise a bit more freedom though.
Dubs for DVD are different though. Because the direct-to-dvd dubs are aimed at Western anime geeks more than any general audience, they are usually more faithful to the work. The only things that often change are some parts of conversation that don't easily translate to English. DVD can contain just about any level of content you want, and with a $30 price tag for 4 of an average 13 episodes translation companies cater pretty well to their fanbase.
From my experience so far, ADV filme has done an EXCELLENT job over the last few years in the dub department. "Sonic The Hegdehog" was pretty shabby, and some other dubs they did around 2000 were okay, but their recent licenses are so well done that they can stand on their own. In some cases it has been said that some of ADV's dubs were better than the original J-voice work.
In short, dubs for tv are USUALLY worse than their subtiteled, original cut counter-parts. The same used to be true with for-video, but nowdays DVD dubs are often fairly on par with the original voice work.
It also doesn't really help that Al Kahn's philosophy on dubbing is to sell toys -_-;
(C&Ped from interview on www.animenewsnetwork.com )
What attributes should a property have before you consider bringing it over to the west?
We look at things such as popularity, but also if it has a merchandising component; can we license it, can we license products for it? Thats really the main issue for us... the playing pattern, if it's popular and how it merchandises. If we can't merchandise it, it really doesn't have a lot of interest for us.
Really makes me wonder what drove 4Kids to license Sonic X to begin with, also considering that they have first dibs on any Nintendo-based anime that would come around.
That first link is nigh unreadable. People need to realize that busy backgrounds suck for text...
There are MANY excellent dubs...just not on TV...
*Looks at Outlaw Star, The Slayers, Gundam Wing/SEED and a few others he can't remember the names of right now*
They're on (or were on) TV. Superb dubs aswell. I prefer Wing and Star's dubs to the original (where certain characters sound female and annoying)
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Superb dubs aswell
Outlaw Star, yes... but I really can't agree with you about Slayers. Seemed like a sub-average dub to me.
I really need to check what the Angel Lynx dub is like, though. (Outlaw Star spin-off series)
I can't really say much for subtitled stuff, because i haven't seen that much besides some of a little of Samurai Deeper Kyo, DN Angel, and Di Gi Charat, just to name a few.
I've also watched subbed and raw episodes of Sonic X, and I really prefer that over the English dub. Darn 4Kids almost ruined it for me.
I've seen a lot of dubbed anime, and some of the voices are nice (like Wolf's Rain when it was on TV
I agree, there are plenty good dubs out there, Excel Saga [probably the BEST Ive ever seen], Pretear etc..
One thing you need to remember is that TV dubbs usually arent aimed at folks like us. Instead its the Kiddy market!
BUT...if theres ONE THING I'LL NEVER FORGIVE ITS...*takes a deep breath*.. EDITING ENGLISH TEXT OUT OF AN ENGLISH DUBB! *cough*sonicX*cough.
well, the script for the dubbed Samurai Deeper Kyo is generally nothing more then people saying 'demon eyes kyo?!'.
once they managed to say that more then 10 times in about 15 minutes. my freinds and i are thinking that it'd make for a great drinking game. 
going baaack on topic.. i don't see why they've edited out so much text in sonic X, especially when it wouldn't have been offensive words or product placement. according to the list of changes, a good number of english words have been cut.
Someone should have asked Al Khan about that one:
"What's the deal with editting out perfectly legible english/leaving edited signs blank/generally ticking fans off?"
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That first link is nigh unreadable. People need to realize that busy backgrounds suck for text...
i agree, the background is giving me brainache.
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Someone should have asked Al Khan about that one:
"What's the deal with editting out perfectly legible english/leaving edited signs blank/generally ticking fans off?"
Have to admit, that interview put a whole new twist to things. Though yes, that question definitely should've been asked.
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Have to admit, that interview put a whole new twist to things. Though yes, that question definitely should've been asked.
I second that question!
But at least theres a CHANCE of uncut SonicX! In america...at least. I cant see Disney/Jetix releasing it here! *frowns*
I agree with that question too!
As for uncut Sonic X in America, I highly doubt that... maybe... 
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Though, if that's true Shadow. How would you explain Carni Isle zone on Angel Island, a place inhabited only by a single, lone Echidna?
Good question. While I'm inclined to agree with the other responses, it does seem like something Eggman would build after all. I see the Nutrogic High zone as evidence of that. Perhaps Eggman constructed Carnival Night as a way for proving his benevolence to Knuckles.
Knuckles: I'm the protector of the emeralds and gams. Are you here for the master emerald?
Eggman: The what now? I'm just here to build amusement parks.
Knuckles: Hey! This looks like a fun place to chill and lamp...
Eggman: What some cotton candy?
Knuckles: I love cotton candy!
Eggman: Great. If you see a blue hedgehog and his jail bait fox, look out! They might take it from you.
Knuckles: (Laughing) Bring 'em on! My heart is like iron and and my feet are like fire!
Otherwise, it could have been something built by Knux's ancestors, after the island passed close enough to the mainland. From observation, and all that.
I think the best explanation is that, like Knuckles' set of emeralds or Hyper Sonic, Carnival Night was a game-play-oriented decision before the Sonic Mythology had completely gelled into the form we now know. While the Floating Island was meant to be a lost relic, with Knuckles as the last of the guardians, they hadn't officially declared that Knux was essentially the only "being" on the island.
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The way I see it, the helpful (though fail-able) rule is that it's a human settlement if Sonic and Eggman simply pass through it. If Sonic blows it up, then there is a good chance it was an Eggman base.
Classic Examples from 1&2
Human Zones (Passed Through):
Spring Yard (Junk Yard?)
Starlight Zone (Freeway)
Chemical Plant (Chemical Plant)
Casino Night (Casino)
Oil Ocean (Oil Rig)
Metropolis Zone (Factory, or Civic Power Station)
Eggman Bases (All destroyed):
Scrap Brain
Flying Fortress
Flying Battery (Remains of the former?)
Death Egg
I do remember one of the original backstories for Sonic and his world: Mobius is actually a post apocolyptic Earth, resulting from the amassing of arms to the point of annihilation. The nuclear fallout and the reduction of humans alowed animals to evolve into more humanoid creatures. This suggests the notion that appears in many sci-fi stories that regardless of the original organism, the human is the final form of evolution and that given the chance any animal would eventualy evolve human qualities.
This storyline actually appears in the OAV (supervised and directed by Naka and Sonic Team). The "ancient relics" in the land of darkness is most likely New York or some other city now without life except for the overgrowth. This goes right along with alot of the Matrix's origin stories and the theme of mankind destroying himself with his own superiority.
The nuclear winter probably formed the glaciers that became the "backbone" connecting the land of the sky, and possibly a seperate dimension may have formed. There also seems to be an idea of a reduced gravity on Mobius that would alow objects to reach a free-floating neutral state (floating platforms and floating islands). Even the whole concept of the contients being thrown into space by the planets centrifical force suggests that the main planet doesn't have enough central mass to create a gravity strong enough to attract the continents should their supports break. All this points to the Earth losing a large ammount of mass from large explosions, or excavation of natural resources resulting in a more hollow core.
Sonic X (also supervised by Sonic Team-this time Naka is credited as a Producer) may be a continuation of this. I haven't seen any episodes with "Sonic's" dimension, but I wouldn't be suprised to find things that point to the same continuity.
As for Chaos Control, it doesn't warp by changing your position...it controls time. By pausing time you could technically move anywhere in an instant compared to the rest of the frozen existance because speed is simply a measure of time vs. position.
If time control is possible, then the concept of paralel time existances also comes into play. So technically though Mobius would be result of Earth today, the present Earth would always exist as another dimension that still continues to play out (think Dragonball Z or even Slaughterhouse Five). Chaos Control may have caused a time rift that overlapped the future Earth (mobius) with the present day Earth (as we know it today) thus explaining the radical changes in the look of Sonic Adventure compared to the classic games.
Damn it. I had a well though out response that is going to be buried in Anti-mobius fallout caused by the previous poster... 
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Good thoughts Blaze, however, while it is (very) debatable that "Mobius" is a valid alternative back-story to the SegaSonic continuity, the events that you refer to are entirely based on relatively recent Archie shenanigans.
The truth of the matter is that:
1) According to SegaSonic, Sonic and Eggman have always been at it, on the same planet, which is now known to be Earth.
2) Sonic Team's narrative input in the Sonic OVA is often overrated. While it's closer to the games then SatAM ever was, it remains a separate continuity. Hence the fact they are on Planet Freedom, rather then earth. The Dark world New York was meant to be a thoughtful, and surprising side note to the movie, and not a guide to the SegaSonic world.
3) Sonic X is not SegaSonic. They look alike, and walk alike, and sometimes they even talk alike (until 4Kids gets their grubby paws on it), but they are totally different continuities. The Chaos Control plot device in Sonic X was added so that the cartoon could conceivable be considered the sequel to any of the four other Sonic cartoon Continuities. Thus, the show would have a broader appeal.
eg:
Q) Where's Sally and the Freedom Fighters?
A) Back on Mobius.
Q) Where's Sarah?
A) Back on planet Freedom?
Q) What are Scratch and Grounder doing?
A) Waiting for Sonic to Return.
Q) Where are Sonic's siblings and his magic guitar?
A) They're all dead -- because you touch yourself at night!
You see? In this way, all continuities can be shoehorned in as a prequel. It's not meant to be part of the games, or else Chris would have been on Team Rose in Heroes.
Good theories, man, but they simply aren't SegaSonic.
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the events that you refer to are entirely based on relatively recent Archie shenanigans.
Actually, I HATE the Archie world (KEN PENDERS SUCKS - one of my old friends headed a hate site). With a passion. I do not read the comics AT ALL. The only real familiarity I have with it is through SatAM, which rubbed me the wrong way even then.
The post apocolypse story was actually something I read YEARS ago and I forget who wrote it, but I'm pretty sure it was one of the members of Sonic Team. It was even on Sega's old site (their Sonic The Hedgehog section back then).
The only reason I even use the name "Mobius" is because it appeared in the Sonic The Hedgehog manual. Wether that's THE name, I dont know...in this case I was simply using "Mobius" to identify a "Not-Our-Current-Earth".
Of course, the only SegaSonic world is the universe that the games themselves create, but the fact that Sega and Sonic Team were involved (regardless of how much) means that they have some significance with the cannon. They are almost "brother" stories, wheras SatAM and AoStH seem more like very distant cousins.
Also interesting: did you know a mobius is that wierd shape that you can draw a continuos line on both sides of. I wonder if it had significance within the Sonic world...
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When the Sonic OAV first surfaced online I was AWED because it was the only cartoon so far to resemble the games: Eggman looked like Eggman, the Tornado was there, Metal Sonic was there, Knuckles, etc..
ditto. [well on Sonic Jam, for me!] It was just what I'd been after ever since 1991. A cartoon that actually tried to resemble/base itself from its source material.
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The J-cut of Sonic X, though not perfect (*cough*Chrissucks*cough*), was pretty much in sync with the Sega universe. The music was inline with the game, and I'd bet that the VA's were the same as in Sonic Adventure (I have sources to check with).
The VA's were indeed ditto to the official japanese actors. Though Im one of those who has had most access to the 4Kids dubb.
I have some Japanese episodes, but only a few.
personally, I like the 4Kids actors *anvil drops from above*
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I do remember one of the original backstories for Sonic and his world: Mobius is actually a post apocolyptic Earth, resulting from the amassing of arms to the point of annihilation. The nuclear fallout and the reduction of humans alowed animals to evolve into more humanoid creatures. This suggests the notion that appears in many sci-fi stories that regardless of the original organism, the human is the final form of evolution and that given the chance any animal would eventualy evolve human qualities.
This storyline actually appears in the OAV (supervised and directed by Naka and Sonic Team). The "ancient relics" in the land of darkness is most likely New York or some other city now without life except for the overgrowth.
I never thought of it that way, good call! and where did you read this "backstory"??? Some website maybe...or book?
...last time I saw that story was in 1998. It was in the stories section of an online Sonic fanclub that I ran (before web-based forums became common). My frend who handled (and hosted) the website had the story up there. Since then, both our old e-mail accounts are long sinse dead and the web url is just a 404 error now.
It's possible that I might still have it on a 3.5 burried somewhere, but chances are slim.
Just what is Sonic's home planet anyway? There are so many continuities that it makes me go insane!!
Earth. At least in the game continuity.
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...last time I saw that story was in 1998. It was in the stories section of an online Sonic fanclub that I ran (before web-based forums became common). My frend who handled (and hosted) the website had the story up there. Since then, both our old e-mail accounts are long sinse dead and the web url is just a 404 error now.
well if you ever do find it. Could you post it here? Im interested in reading it.
