Sonic Rush is Sonic DS, FYI. And I believe Sonic's direction is still running from left to right.

Sonic the Hedgehog. Always running forwards. Never looking back. If he does, the camera kills you.

As a serious reply to the topic...

I think referring to "the Sonic we all know and love" takes a little explanation, too. The Sonic I love from the Genesis days is not the Sonic from the Dreamcast ones. It tries to be, but it's just... not.

I read an article a while ago about Sonic being built 14 years ago as the epitome of cool, and he was. But the things that made him cool back in the 90's are the very things that make him fall flat in the new millennium. He's a stale, flat character. That's part of the reason Shadow's become such a popular character: Just like Sonic, with an attitude that "cooler" than the Blue Blur's retro style.

I think, if SEGA wants to continue pushing their license onward, they're going to need to rethink what they're doing. Introducing new characters like Shadow, Rouge, Blaze, and Emerl are all well and good, but Sonic is the one that starred in their flagship series before any of them, and he's the one people don't care about anymore. Sonic needs to be thought of the main star again, not just a name and a face on a game box.

As far the 'realistic graphics' are concerned, Sonic has always been cartoon-y, and always will be. You can have pretty sexy-looking cartoon graphics, though (imagine seeing every single spine on Sonic's back!). But before graphics, needs to come substance, and SEGA's not doing so well in that department. Even if Sonic and Co. make it to the next wave of consoles, they're not going any further without some serious re-tooling. Those are my thoughts on the matter.

So what you're saying is, you don't like the new Sonic because it's not the same as the old Sonic, the one you like, which is now stale and boring? I guess you must pretty much hate him right now, then.

Hate is such a strong word, but yeah. The new Sonic games are just dull. Not to mention buggy and irritating. And from a writer's standpoint, while other games have adopted actual stories and personalities for their characters, Sonic has stayed to the "tried and true" formula of weak plots, zero character depth, and unpolished gameplay, relying only on their brand name to sell titles.

I wouldn't really agree. I think the Sonic games have always had some decent characters with a lot of depth. I'd say their main problem is simply SHOWING that. If you look deep enough and think hard enough things about the characters begin to fall into place, but you have to put in that extra effort, where in other games those details are visable for all to see.

I do agree with the plot point: the plots are getting a little shallow. Still, you have to admit, how easy can it be to find new ways for an evil dictator to try to take over the world?

It's a difficult question, but I have faith in SEGA that they'll find an answer. The only thing I wonder is how long will it take them?

Wraith.

I don't think the plots are getting shallow, I just think they're trying too hard. The old games had very little plot, but it didn't matter. When infused with a plot,it just makes for plot holes.
But I guess what I'm really trying to ask is if Sonic can go anywhere from here. Not every video game can be adapted at a higher level. Is Sonic done?
But then I think about a game like Tetris - no matter how nifty your PS2 may be, Tetris is still Tetris. True, Tetris doesn't have things like characters and plot to contend with, and just relies on addictiveness, but as far as I know, they've never really messed with the formula. I don't think Tetris has ever gone 3D, has it?
So maybe Sonic has come to a point where he should just stick to a formula rather than advancing.

There have been a few 3D Tetrises (that a word?) but none of them really took off, because they were all just variations on a theme. For the same reason, for Sonic to stick to the side-scrolling platform genre would be a mistake I think. There are many die-hard fans (Myself included) that are simply so into the old games that they'll love them no matter how old they get, but the majority of game-playing public today want bigger and better. Side-scrolling platformers may keep me and some others happy, but only a select few.

I figure Sonic HAS to evolve in some way, and the logical progression of course is the world of 3D platforming. The difficulty as I see it, is to get the fine balance between old skool and new moderness, ie. keeping it close enough to the old games to please older fans, but keeping it new and upbeat to impress new people.

SH for example did quite well at that: the gameplay was novel, and yet had a vague resemblance to the older games. The problem with SH though, was that the storyline was somewhat weak and predictable, meaning that people tended to lose interest since they could pretty acurately guess what was coming.

In Sonic, SEGA has the characters and the gameplay, but simply needs a better, more interesting storyline.

(All of this imo of course. I understand people may not agree.)

Wraith.

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The problem with SH though, was that the storyline was somewhat weak and predictable, meaning that people tended to lose interest since they could pretty acurately guess what was coming.

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Not to mention the bottomless pits XP

I believe there is always room for some improvement in the story department, but Sonic will be Sonic. Some of the games never had much of a story, and always had the final battle in space, but the formula worked out-- except now the newer games are directed at small children.

I'd disagree. I think the newer games are aimed at an older audience than the older ones.

Until we can make a pure 'every-spine on Sonic's head' polygon, I think they should stop with the graphic-ups and stick more on gameplay.

Why? One reason: End of new Shadow trailer. Claymation + Sonic = Aggghhhhh! TOO REAL LOOKING! Sonic's meant to be a fantasy character... not this:

www.mihog.org/images/turtle_ball.jpg

I can picture it in my head right now. :'(

Other than that, I have no complaints about storylines or gameplay, as Sonic's been top-notch in my opinion (except Heroes, which I didn't hate, just thought could have been better), in both genres.

~Nytloc Penumbral Lightkeeper

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Claymation + Sonic = Aggghhhhh!

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I can't agree more here ^^;

I haven't actually seen these new screenshots...anyone tell me where I could find them?

Also, a thought...Cell Shaded Sonic. Viewpoints anyone?

I'd have to say no myself. Possibly in games aimed at the below 12 age range, but not the higher ages.

And with regard to plotlines, I think we should all make up our own stories for the games and senf them in! I thought one up a while ago, and I considered sending it to SEGA to see if they thought it was good (I was young at the time). lol it'd be fun anyway.

Wraith

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Also, a thought...Cell Shaded Sonic. Viewpoints anyone?

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Sonic Shuffle.

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Cell Shaded Sonic. Viewpoints anyone?

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Sonic Rush as well.

I cell shading like Paper Mario or Viewtiful JOe?

Sonic Shuffle and Rush? Never seen them...

I was thinking cell shaded like they've done to Zelda (Not that I'm into that game anyway, but origionally it at least LOOKED decent, even if imo it didn't play well. Now it's just silly.). There are other types of Cell Shaders o.O?

I wouldn't consider Sonic Rush cell shaded, though. As it seems to blend 3D models in 2D backgrounds.

Well, on the story line and character development side, look at Mario. We know absolutely nothing about him, only that he likes saving the world, jumping, and that he's Italian. He never has any dialog... nothing. Same thing with Link--other than the whole saving Princesses attribute, we know nothing about his individual personality. The only thing we know that those two will save the world no matter what...and that with their personalities, they can be applied to almost any situation. (Well, Mario can anyway...Link needs to stay right where he is.)

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Well, on the story line and character development side, look at Mario. We know absolutely nothing about him, only that he likes saving the world, jumping, and that he's Italian. He never has any dialog... nothing. Same thing with Link--other than the whole saving Princesses attribute, we know nothing about his individual personality. The only thing we know that those two will save the world no matter what...and that with their personalities, they can be applied to almost any situation. (Well, Mario can anyway...Link needs to stay right where he is.)

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Who else can get away with that but established franchise veterans?

New characters need more than that to survive against gaming powerhouses like the above-mentioned. Just staying within the platformer genre we have Jak, Ratchet, Kratos, and branching out a little bit farther than platforming there's the likes of Max Payne.

The problem with established franchises is that they must rely on brand recognition to sell their titles, because either they cannot support or implement stories and character depth like new titles are requiring now in the market. But even as they rely on the strength of their brand, the very power of that brand is diminishing.

Sonic may just be at the point where that brand power can't keep it afloat anymore.

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Sonic the Hedgehog. Always running forwards. Never looking back. If he does, the camera kills you.

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*gets hit by camera several times*
I guess the camera is attempting murder, so i'll make this brief:
Sonic is in limbo at the moment. Loved the Genesis games, hated the dreamcast games, SH was a bit of a let down after all that waiting, no matter how much people protest saying "team chaotix' trials' were unique!"
And now, we have Shadow's new game and all, it just completely threw away the normal sonicey concept where you ran aimlessly around the forest like a maniac.
I'll remain a faithful Sonic fan, however,(Only because he's in cahoots with Knux). Hopefully, when I buy this Shadow game, and all the other Sonic games to come, I'll know that my faithfulness has paid off.

My point exactly. But to elaborate... Mario is so basic that, like I said, he can go into practically any situation. Sonic, however, has been about speed ever since they created him. At the beginning when it was Mario VS Sonic (damn I miss those simpler days... ), it was easy for them to compete (as a matter of fact Sonic could've won had they stayed permanently in the mid-90s): jumping, mushroom loving guy VS running AND jumping hedgehog (at high speeds) with gold rings.

But nowadays, while Mario made the 2D-3D transition beautifly, Sonic is suffering, mostly because the camera is a back-stabbing pycho and the feeling is ... off.

(You know that feeling; where you go into a loop and the game just takes you through as long as you just have the D-pad titled--and if you don't do it right you get thrown into a bottomless pit.)

That's very true.
Because the Sonic games are changing so drastically(Sonic Heroes as a King example), most people are starting to go off it.
And about the camera thing, if you're talking about the camera angles during gameplay, then I know exactly what you mean. For some reason, during SA2:B, the camera wouldn't rotate, so I just had to step forward, not knowing what would be ahead. This move always proved to be fatal, because whenever I did atep forward, I'd see Sonic falling down a cliff or something.

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[insert references to realistic graphics here]

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You mean something like this?

Personally, I would like a such a style if it were refined better so it actually looked more like Sonic. (The spike arrangement and the blue arms don't look right.)

As for where Sonic's going in the future - Sonic isn't really going anywhere. There will no truly radical changes to the gameplay. Heroes is so far the most "radical" change and even that was simply Sonic-split-into-three-characters-so-"they"-could-have-a-wider-move-set-which-wasn't-that-wide-anyway.
A real revolution for Sonic isn't going to happen anytime soon, simply beause it isn't really needed. An evolution of Sonic's existing formula will suffice for all future 2D releases. As for 3D releases, they will probably never get it right. Not unless Shadow The Hedgehog is REALLY, REALLY good.

EDIT: *fix formatting errors and typos*

=O @ that Sonic picture. Anywho yea I mean I don't see any evolution in his gameplay except maybe allowing us to use his flippin Super form in the regular levels. *rant* Ok so it wouldn't be revolutionary, but very cool no lie. *shrugs*

As awesome as that may be as a character model, it just wouldn't work well as a realistic Sonic. If it had a few more Sonic traits, sure. XP

I don't think the graphics need to be uber realistic to look good, atleast. As long as they update the character models and make them look a lot less shiny, so it doesn't give off the impression that they're made out of rubber I'll be pleased. At the moment I'm more concerned about Sonic Team fixing the gameplay than anything else. Hopefully they'll get it right this time around with Shadow the Hedgehog, once it is released.