You can barely make an educated opinion on Sonic's future on the eve of the first game where he is a side-character. Shadow the Hedgehog is going to rock the franchise no matter what. Wether it becomes a spin-off and we suddenly see titles branching out to all different wavelengths using different characters, or we revert to the series never trying to be bold like that again; is something we'll have to see after the game is released.

Point is, if Shadow shows Sega there's a market in diversifying the games, they'll take the idea and run with it. Wouldn't be suprised to see a new Tails title, a Knuckles one and so on and so forth each after a little bit of our wallet.

But, who knows at this point. It's all up to that damn angsthog and his Desert Eagle now.

That's what I mean; not Sonic the character, but the course of Sonic the video game franchise itself.

As for the possibility...I just hope they give Tails a VA that doesn't sound like a kid with a head cold.

I didn't mention Sonic as a character o.o

and, to be honest, I can live with the Tails VA through getting used to it in the last 3 games, though Heroes was a dip in quality for all concerned.

I'm more worried about the fact that Eggman has a totally new voice actor these days and I wont sleep easy until I know who it is and what it sounds like.

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You can barely make an educated opinion on Sonic's future on the eve of the first game where he is a side-character.

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I had assumed from that that you meant Sonic the Hedgehog, not Sonic the game.

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I can live with the Tails VA through getting used to it in the last 3 games

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I can't. Tail's VA in SH was really annoying. It was even more annoying to hear only HIM talking whenever I accidentally touched one of those question mark thingys.

But about the whole Sonic games, I don't know. More people are starting to prefer the other characters, like Shadow, Knuckles, Tails and I even have a few friends who like Cream the best. Hardly anyone I talk to calls Sonic their favourite character.

I think it might be because they haven't given him good story lines anymore. Shadow has that whole Maria thing. Although kinda confusing for some, it makes you want to play the game to find out who he is.

*sighs*

This may be the longest rant I've ever had. I need sleep. It's 8:00 in the morning!!!

I stopped being a fan of Sonic (the character, not the games) when he changed from his pre-adventure "hero" image to this new "surfer" Sonic. The games were more intriguing when you saw Sonic and Eggman as locked in a histrionic battle of good and evil, rather than as an eccentric professor and a hedonistic hedgehog who only fights Eggman "for fun". That's why the secondary characters are so popular - Shadow, Rouge, even Cream have more to life than lazing about on the beach all day.

And forget Shadow's past, I still want a game with some backstory on Knuckles

And forget Shadow's past, I still want a game with some backstory on Knuckles

*hugs*
YES!!!! THAT IS WHAT WE NEED!!!!
Okay- meet me at 18:00 and we can go to Japan. Once there, we shall go to Yuji Naka and DEMAND a game like that.

Hardly anyone I talk to calls Sonic their favourite character.

I'd square the blame completely on the fact that Sonic is the stereotypical, unchanging cool character of the cast who doesn't get, nor require development, because he's the star and most videogame series' favour an undeveloped central character (Mario, Link, Crash as just 3 examples, we know alot of their world and the side-characters, but little to nothing about them) for a sort of roleplaying (that's "playing the role", not HP, Dexterity and armour >.>)experience.

Add this also to the fact that Sonic is increasingly becoming the weakest character of the bunch, without any real special ability to set him apart from everyone else, noting that everyone (besides Amy) can spindash these days, and the extra abilities, such as the R Tricks, the double jump and the bounce just can't compare to the glide/climb of Knuckles, the Chao launching and flying ability of Cream, Tails' flight, Amy's increased difficulty level, Shadow's Chaos abilities and suchforth.

Sonic's been cloned to death, and has yet to find a special ability he can stand out with, so no wonder his popularity is sinking.

Interesting point Matt.

Sonic is indeed probably the most mysterious character of the group thus far; even more so than Tails and Knuckles (with Tails, we know that he's a very gifted and intelligent two-tailed fox, but that's pretty much it. Knuckles is the Guardian of the Master Emerald and Angel Island, and that speaks a lot in and of itself). As for Sonic, he's become just a guy who WILL stop Eggman, but only because it's something for him to do (in a way, Sonic is sort of like Bart Allen AKA 'Impulse'; he's subject to his impulses and his whims).

Then again, when one moves as fast as Sonic, you tend to do everything so fast that you have to keep doing stuff to keep yourself from being bored to death.

Nevertheless, I'm intrigued by the sight of Sonic in pain from the Shadow the Hedgehog trailer. Perhaps this game will actually develop the characters more (with a definitive spotlight on Shadow, though).

I think in terms of new Sonic games, probably for the upcoming consoles [PS3 & XBox 360], Graphic-wise, I don't think Sonic needs to change his image at ALL - all it needs is refinement and quality on the graphics quality we've already got.
Take Serious Sam for example; there's a game where the graphics look both cartoony and have good detail at the same time. I think the SA 1 advert when it was around, had a seriously awesome-looking model that didn't look too un-Sonic like - I've got a poster of what I mean here: www.deviantart.com/view/13632196/

too many times have I seen blocky-looking hands, feet and curves all around the characters. Take this SH pic as an example: www.computerfeet.com/imag..._Event.jpg I have never seen a 3D Sonic game that can actually make the 'clothing' actually look decent, and have the models make their features mold together

I think what Sonic games really need, are proper good physics - perhaps use something like the Havoc engine... that way it'll be a LOT more realistic without making it graphically too realistic.

ok, let's say you damage the next robotic boss, what would be ber awesome if we could see wires dangling down and sparks flying!! It's that kind of details that Sonic games are severely lacking in!

I'm very fond of the Sonic design on the cover of Gems Collection - it's kind of the perfect meld of the pre- and post-Adventure designs. Hopefully it'll stick around in the future.

As for Shadow's story, I'm kinda expecting it to be revealed that Shadow is just an ultimate lifeform prototype, and that Sonic is really the UL. Although the storyline is so complex lately I don't think even Sega has a clue what they're doing.

I'm kinda expecting it to be revealed that Shadow is just an ultimate lifeform prototype, and that Sonic is really the UL.

NO!

Shadow's backstory hurts my head enough without going deeper. What we need to do is stay in the shallow end, it's nice and cool here, we can just say "Shadow = UL. Biolizard = Prototype. Maria = Dead. Memories = Real. Gerald.... well, let's not think about him at all, because it'll melt your brain"

Sonic is just naturally better than Shadow. He's not engineered.

VCP writes some pretty decent rants on the subject, sadly they were all deleted in EZCrash 2005.

I'm not saying it's something I *want* to happen - just that I can see Sega thinking it'd be a good idea.

Craig also brings up a good point.

Although character development would be nice, it has to be handled CORRECTLY. After all, I myself couldn't really understand SA2's entire story. For instance, where the heck did the Biolizard come from? It was never mentioned before (except in one measly cutscene)...and for the fact that it's the prototype of the Ultimate Lifeform, it needed more light shed on it.

Hopefully the 'Hero/Dark' will be handled sensibly in the Shadow the Hedgehog.

Sonic will continue along the path of mediocrity for the foreseeable future, with many ill-conceived but profitable spinoffs along the way.

In five years or so the Sonic brand will have become less profitable and the games will become lesser in quantity but no greater in quality. Infused with new talent and direction Sega may then produce a new high-profile Sonic game that reinvigorates the series and puts it on the right track once again. Then greed will set in again and a rushed sequel will be released, failing everyone's expectations. Many of the crew behind Sonic's re-revival will have left and more spinoffs and sub-par sequels will make their way through. The complacency with the Sonic series will then stay until Sega's end.

The fandom will continue to prevail like maggots on a dead rat, missing the entire point and clinging onto the hope that the next game might reveal the true origin of Shadow or develop Cream the Rabbit's character, not caring about whether the game will actually be good or not or about the integrity of the series or Sonic the Hedgehog as a character.

That also brings another point to this equation: the fandom.

Sonic's success depends on his fans...and many of them are 'purists' like VCP (I'm assuming you're a purist). They desire the glory days of Genesis gameplay, or at least the classic Sonic gameplay perfectly captured in 3D.

However, it seems that SEGA is catering to other factions of the Sonic fandom. For now, that is.

I personally think Sonic should have stayed 2D...the 3D games just aren't as fun as the 2D ones which is why I loved the Sonic Advance series so much...I too have grown tired of Sonic's character, it doesn't evolve any! Well neither does Knuckles (Still the gulliable one) but he's red and he has power...

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Sonic's success depends on his fans

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It doesn't, it never has. The Sonic series has always had mass mainstream appeal, I'd wager that very few of the people who buy Sonic games would consider themselves fans.

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I personally think Sonic should have stayed 2D...the 3D games just aren't as fun as the 2D ones which is why I loved the Sonic Advance series so much...

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Is that because you don't think Sonic can work in 3D, or because the 3D games haven't developed themselves any further than the good start it got in Sonic Adventure?

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I too have grown tired of Sonic's character, it doesn't evolve any! Well neither does Knuckles (Still the gulliable one) but he's red and he has power...

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The characters aren't supposed to evolve.

Hey they've already captured the speed from the Genesis days, and now all they need is a new camera and that classic style of gameplay that made Sonic so loveable in the early ninties. Shadow is somewhat improving on some of these, but the gunplay doesn't make it feel classic!

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Is that because you don't think Sonic can work in 3D, or because the 3D games haven't developed themselves any further than the got start it got in Sonic Adventure?

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Sonic games in 3D are just awkward...and it seems to have lost the speed factor once present in the 2D games where Sonic would go so fast, the camera would lose track...

That's not the fault of the third dimension itself though.

Interesting points. I have been a fan for somewhat 12 years now, and really still am - due to the fact that I can't let go of NOT being a fan. Sure Heroes, was a let down, and I'm not really looking forward to the new Shadow game, but being a fan is not like flicking a switch on and off.

That's why i'm more excited about the new gems collection more than the new Shadow game. Going back to the roots.

Well, I'd like to state, that the perfect compromise would be good story AND good gameplay. The old school camp wants good gameplay, whereas the new school wants good story and development. And both are more or less getting the shaft in areas. It's not a matter of sacrificing gameplay for story or vice-versa, it's a matter of compromising. These characters can develop, and this gameplay has room to develop. Now, I just think, that if the writers, artists, and designers, who understood their part, did their part and the developers, who understood their part, did their part, with the big guys helping smooth them together (Programming insists that this new character's attack won't work; designers change it a bit so it can), then they can possibly bring it back. Can you dig it?

* slight crowd cheer *

Can you DIG IT!?

* crowd cheers more *

Caaaaaan yooooooou diiiiiig iiiiit!?!?

* crowd roars, erupts into applause *

But until that happens, I'm a bit doubtful.

Also, anybody who knows what movie I just made a reference to, gets a cookie.

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Well, I'd like to state, that the perfect compromise would be good story AND good gameplay.

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That's not a compromise.

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The old school camp wants good gameplay, whereas the new school wants good story and development.

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I disagree entirely. Almost everyone who plays Sonic games wants a game that's fun to play and faithful to the Sonic formula first and foremost. Some people care about the storylines along with them (mostly fans, both old and new), but usually as a lesser concern.

A good story can enhance a game, a bad story can drag down a game, but at the end of the day it doesn't amount to much if the game itself sucks.

And I'll say it again, anyone who wants character development that results in a character actually changing in any significant way, just doesn't get it.

whoa, I don't want characters changing significantly, at least not all at once. I don't want Sonic to suddenly be a mopey angstbomb.

Now that I look back, that's a stupid post. I'm sorry. ;_;

I guess I should've fleshed it out more: I also should've included "attitude" and "personality" into the mix.

Attitude, Sonic's "Way too cool" is becoming less of a "fight for good" and more of a "I can kick your but so I will! I kicked your butt! Now I'm snowboarding!" Not that that's a bad thing, really, but I kinda want to see him show some form of emotion like we barely got at the end of SA2. Sometimes I get into a game more when I get a feel for the characters more.

Personality applies to characters and the game. The games themselves, I think they're doing good at the feeling almost, except for the lack of variety at times in zones.

My point exactly, Dopefish. OldSchool!Sonic was someone I felt a kid could look up to, post-Adventure Sonic is someone I wouldn't really want anything to do with.

*Blink* But all we knew of his attitude post-Adventure was that he was a rude as hell, impatient person who was 90's tap cool.

As I always say, all he needs is sunglasses and a jacket, and Sonic would be Poochie.

I mean, what's so appealing and inspiring about a hedgehog who waves his finger "attitude"ly at the viewer, says "I'm outta here" and kills you if you sit around too long, and has the entire character concept of the early 90's Bart Simpson bad boy image.

Really, he hasn't changed much at all in any way shape or form in my eyes. If anything, he's become friendlier and less of a gimboid.

That said, most people just base their "oldskool" impressions of Sonic upon whichever media they grew up with, wether it be the Archie Comic, Steve Urkell or Fleetway Sonic.

Fleetway Sonic was a complete ass. Plain and simple. I grew up with him.

So maybe I'm bias.

This was posted earlier, but I felt it needed special attention.

Sonic's been cloned to death, and has yet to find a special ability he can stand out with, so no wonder his popularity is sinking.
Exactly! They kind of undermined the whole character by giving every other character the same powers. Fact is, Sonic isn't the "fastest thing alive" when Tails, Knux, Shadow, and a half-dozen others can run as fast as Sonic, and spindash, and go super, and do all that other stuff. What the hell reason do I have to like Sonic anymore?

They really should just never have made all these characters. There's barely anything left of the old games I used to love. The logical solution would just be to say, screw it, let's ditch all the baggage and start over. But it's too far gone now. So what do I see for the future of the Sonic franchise? Me never playing another Sonic game again, and looking back on it twenty years from now with unbridled contempt and disappointment, rather than with the warmth and nostalgia it once deserved.

Another interesting point; AU tie-ins.

It's pretty clear that SEGA has yet to let a game based on the comic franchises (Archie, Fleetway) or the cartoons (AoStH, SatAM, Underground, the Movie, and X). It's also apparent that in the foreseeable future, no such games will be released.

But what if Sega were to loosen its hold? Allow games based on material outside Sonic Team canon to be developed and released?

It'd be interesting indeed...

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Me never playing another Sonic game again, and looking back on it twenty years from now with unbridled contempt and disappointment

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i started being disappointed in sonic from the first time i saw his new design. but i don't think it's that bad, maybe sonic team can fix him with time.

and about sonic being second place to shadow, i don't think it'll happen. yuji nakka loves sonic he won't give up on him, either all the sonic characters go or sonic stays.

But what if Sega were to loosen its hold? Allow games based on material outside Sonic Team canon to be developed and released?

I heavily doubt a Japanese company would make material based on foreign licensed media featuring their creation.

Only the American branch would bother making anything related to the now dead and redundant spin-offs (redundant, except for Archie, the dinosaur which should just keel over and die), and they did transform Puyo-Puyo into Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine and add several SatAM elements into Spinball, aswell as screwing with the Sonic CD story to make it fit with the show.

But, DiC is long gone, so we certainly wont be seeing anything western in the games, not that we would have anyway.

Sonic X is the only spin-off continuity relevant to the Japanese media which are the target audience and the ones that these games are being primarily made for. Sonic X elements HAVE sprung up within SADX with the billboard posters, and such, so much like the cameos SoA put in with the DiC toons, SoJ have referenced their relevant spin-off, however it wont ever come to anything. There's just no point in adapting an adaption.

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Exactly! They kind of undermined the whole character by giving every other character the same powers. Fact is, Sonic isn't the "fastest thing alive" when Tails, Knux, Shadow, and a half-dozen others can run as fast as Sonic, and spindash, and go super, and do all that other stuff. What the hell reason do I have to like Sonic anymore?

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I agree entirely. This is yet another case of Sonic Adventure getting it right and every game since getting it completely wrong. In Sonic Adventure he really is the fastest to a notable degree, and the only character with the homing attack (best attack in the game) and spin dash.

Every character in the Advance series has just been "Sonic but better" (except Amy in Advance 1 who is "Sonic but worse"). SA2 and Sonic Heroes just took Sonic, Tails and Knuckles and cloned them for the other characters.

I truely hope that Sonic Rush, with only Sonic and Blaze to concentrate on, sets the balance right again and gives us character variety akin to S3&K/SA.

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*Blink* But all we knew of his attitude post-Adventure was that he was a rude as hell, impatient person who was 90's tap cool.

As I always say, all he needs is sunglasses and a jacket, and Sonic would be Poochie.

I mean, what's so appealing and inspiring about a hedgehog who waves his finger "attitude"ly at the viewer, says "I'm outta here" and kills you if you sit around too long, and has the entire character concept of the early 90's Bart Simpson bad boy image.

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I couldn't disagree more. Y'know, it is possible for characters to be "cool" without being complete cliches. Sonic is a truely unique character who takes a few cliches and twists them into something different, much like Bill & Ted.

I don't mind post-Adventure Sonic being "cool" except that in some dialogue it seems like he tries TOO HARD to be. Some lines like "This is no way to run an airline!" and "I wouldn't miss this party for the world!" seem forced. The new Sonic is part Lone Ranger and part pretentious "Surfer Dude" which is a very awkward combination if not played right.

I love how Amy has evolved from a damsel in distress to a hero in her own right. I want to see a back story explaining how she got her spin dash (as of Heroes) and speed and other abilities.

Has anyone else noticed that Knuckles had a sense of humor in Sonic 3 and he's been completely serious since then?

Stupid side thought: Woudn't it suck if all those Shadow clones each had attributes of evey other mainstay character-like a super strong one, a Shadow that could fly {Via Chaos status} blah de blah?
Ok I'll shut up now and go on to my real point.

About Sonic being a toal rubbish hog now that everyone can do what he does...there's a distinct ability he has that no one else does have. However it can't be implemented well because it just dosen't work that way to the mainstream audience that knows Sonic. So its added in the gameplay, so the audience dosen't really think about it

That trait is Sonic's undying ingenuity. It's about 10 times better than Tail's mechanical genius, it outshines Knuckles 20 fold and we don't need to compare him to Amy or anyone else. Except maybe Shadow and Eggman. We can't "utilize" it because its made into the gameplay-so we don't think about it as different. {Honestly, when theHoming attack was made, bopping across enemies just got real damn intricate, I can't remember how many times I tried to bop an enemy to hit a ledge-miss, rebop a differnt enemy pretty far away and save my butt.} It's ben apparent since S1. Even though the enemies were fed to you so you could get those points, it still was cool to combo bop them, do some wacky dodge, reverse motion to slam that stupid rolling enemy back in Spring Yard that always followed you down slope ><!

Back to Shadow now. Shadow can't think. Honestly, he can't. I replayed SA2 and came to that conclusuion. He's trying to find who he is, and now there's a damn game that's going to explore his deep dark angstroots that will end up to Sonic pwning his butt once again and giving him the answer that I fear has already been said. {though this whole Sonic Hurt? Link to trailer?}

Sonic=UL. Shadow=Prototype dysfunctional UL. Memories=Real Biolizard=Weird concept for UL but failed.

So now we get SA2, and Sonci using Chaos Control from a fake Emerald. >> I know this point has been beaten to death, but I have a real problem with not seeing this as proof once again that Sonic is the real ingenious hedgehog, able to use the info-not even KNOW how Chaos Control really works, but uses it for his own measure thanks to his own experiences That type of speed is what made him the shizzle Imo.

So-Ultra, to answer your inquiry, I see the Sonic franchise doing what VCP stated earlier I beleive. It'll fizzle, try to branch into a differnt genre-and either fail or succeed. but they won't go far with it. No matter what, every spinoff dosen't really go far {The largest one I believe are the racing ones -Sonic DRIFT, 2 AND R?} and we've had a heck of alot of spinoffs already-from Secondary Character games {Tail's Sky Adventure, Chaotix..Now Shadow Adventure} Fighting, Racing, Puzzle, Card {TO HELL WITH SONIC SHUFFLE >O!!!} Pinball... I mean they just don't go as far.

So we'll get some injection of a game that reintroduces the speed, and we'll rave. We'll not like the sequal just as much {Even though SA2 had its points, Im just mad about the Chao Search bull >_0} but we'll look forward to the spinoffs, however weird they may seem.

There will always be a Sonic game every generation that we'll like because it brings the original hedgehog back. But I do agree. If they stopped giving every damn new character Spindash/SuperSpeed, we'd be fine and Sonic would still rock hard core. I was cool with Tails doing it since he was Sonic's Craig since S2, but everyone else=no.

This post was unnecessarily long. >>

That trait is Sonic's undying ingenuity. It's about 10 times better than Tail's mechanical genius, it outshines Knuckles 20 fold and we don't need to compare him to Amy or anyone else. Except maybe Shadow and Eggman. We can't "utilize" it because its made into the gameplay-so we don't think about it as different.
Sonic's personality is an element of story, not gameplay. If the only reason I have to like Sonic is an element of story, they might as well just make a friggin' movie.

Sonic's personality is an element of story, not gameplay. If the only reason I have to like Sonic is an element of story, they might as well just make a friggin' movie.

>> You know as well as I do that it would have to be a pretty damn good movie to keep either one of us captivated for more than 5 minutes.

But-if we're talking about personality...eh. I don't seem to take to well to Sonic just being "THAT GUY" But someone's gotta do it. I agree it shouldn't be Sonic, he should be the point man who is kinda like ..hell, dare I say it, Solid Snake. Goes in, pwns, gets the job done-and then insert mind warp.

But seriously, Sonic's personality is not going to change. It can't unless they revert Sonic back into a non-speaking badass that gets tired of this robot making idiot messing up his turf.

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Has anyone else noticed that Knuckles had a sense of humor in Sonic 3 and he's been completely serious since then?

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I never noticed a sense of humor in Sonic 3. He laughed at other people's (namely Sonic & Tails) misery, but I don't equate that with having a sense of humor.

I think it all went down hill when the characters started talking (SA and onwards I mean). They didn't NEED any 'attitute' or a personality before they started talking

you could tell what their character was like just by looking at them; the actions and events told the storylines without any confusement.

In Sonic 3/S&K for example, we all knew what was happening because of their facial expressions, and the actions that were taking palce - even the music took a big role in the mood of what was happening; now though IMO, the games more rely upon what's being said, which leads to the characters having a personality which the creators can't seem to make their minds up on what their personalities are going to be like

so in that case.... it's all Shadow's fault for being so angsty and mardy!!

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you could tell what their character was like just by looking at them; the actions and events told the storylines without any confusement.

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Now that seems to make alot of sense to me. The addition of voices to the series seemed to have over emphasized the personalities they want to get across. Actions do speak louder than words, afterall. Still I think they could use VOs and make the best of them...just don't try so hard. VOs can open many interactive doors for the characters, IMO.

(suddenly imagines Sonic as a mime)

Hmm. No VO might be a problem in today's video gaming world. Although a battle between Sonic the Mime and Dr. Mimeman would be amusing.

Well on WindWaker(if i'm not mistaken) Link didn't have a voice over, did he? I think text is just as good...if you can read. XP

sonic is all about speed, reading will only slow up the paste of the action. I think sonic should talk but maybe not so much.

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I think it all went down hill when the characters started talking (SA and onwards I mean).

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but sonic spoke before that, in sonic the hedgehog movie. his character was cool, kinda between the old sonic and the new adventure sonic. even eggman had that comedy bad egg genius character intact from the old games.

But we're only discussing the games in this topic, not cartoons, comics, etc. So VAs in anything other than the video games don't really count.

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I never noticed a sense of humor in Sonic 3. He laughed at other people's (namely Sonic & Tails) misery, but I don't equate that with having a sense of humor.

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Of course not. He's just sadistic. Being alone on the island all this time will give anyone a twisted sense of self-satis-- ... hm, never mind.

In truth, he's all laffy-daffy in Sonic 3 but more somber and serious in S&K. I contend (yes, still) that there was some kind of shift in what the creators wanted with him during the course of development, but were forced to release Sonic 3 first before the appropriate 'attitude' changes could be made.

Knuckles Chuckle, indeed.

Unlike Sonic, Knuckles doesn't actually chuckle. I hear he'd rather flex his muscles.

SilverSwordish.

Gosh. Knuckles used to be a lot... pinker.

Have you seen him go Super/Hyper? Zenkies.

For your inner enlightenment, try Hostess Zenkies. A delicious pastry meditated upon by Buddhist monks and prepped by Taoist disciples into the perfect spiritual form. Zenkies, It's junk food for the soul.

That's The Stuff! HOSTESS!

We now return you to your thread, already in progress...