It seems that every video gaming outlet(message boards, news sites, etc) have negative things to say about the Sonic series as of late. I mean whenever you see a "Top 10 Franchises that Fell from Grace" from some random gaming site, Sonic is usually number one. There are many folks on Something Awful, neoGAF, Penny Arcade, etc. that usually show a disdain from Sega's recent Sonic 3D offerings. There are even people inside the Sonic community who are disappointed with the direction the series have turned.
There was a time when the franchise was just as good as Mario and Zelda and was one of the main reasons to purchase a brand new console. Now, it seems like than main games are leaving a distaste in many people's mouths. I mean 6 years ago, a major Sonic game getting a 5 out of 10 was unheard of and yet this seems to be the average for Sonic 2006, for example.
So what will it take for the Sonic series to be respected or make a comeback, a major reboot like Tomb Raider Legend, handing it off to a more talented team at Sega, or better yet outsourcing to a talented company in the industry, or a combination of the above?
Comments?
Well, Sonic and the Secret Rings might bring Sonic into at least respectability depending on how it turns out, but I don't think it will go beyond respectability with on rails gameplay. However, to make it a HUGE franchise, on the level of Mario and Zelda again, we need:
1. SEGA to stop being cheap about beta testing and quality assurance. Money is what it takes for them to do this, so we need a bomb to tell the execs the message. Hopefully STH360 did it.
2. Somebody getting a clue about the camera. Really, I don't get why they can't understand the simple concept that a customizable and following camera is better than a clunky prescripted camera that takes a huge amount of dev time to preprogram. The on rails gameplay seems to be an attempt to stop the camera from being bad by taking player control, instead of just going to the obvious solution of a real camera, so they obviously still don't get it.
3. Level design. Most zones should have floor levels under them, not a pit. The non-linearity is a necessity because otherwise there is not enough depth to the game, even with customizable moves and so on. Any linear Sonic game that actually lives up to te franchise would have to be drastically different in a way that people would react harshly to, i.e. focusing on battle, in order to include enough depth to go up there with the top titles.
4. Proper use of multiple characters. It was one of S3&K's biggest strengths. Multiple characters should be an option, not a requirement to open a "last story." They should either play the same levels and open up more areas with their abilities, or have cool enough gameplay to really warrant having their own game (only Gamma has warranted separate levels, and I'd rather have shooting in the same stages with some unlockable paths anyway). Don't make characters artificially slow just for variety (SA2 shooting stages, Big). That's very annoying.
5. Learning not to rely on speed. Use the speed to the advantage of the game. Don't twist the game around making cool looking videos of running. If you want a quick pan out of some speed to look cool and score hype, make THAT particular spot in the level a true cutscene and not something the player controls or has to dodge things in the middle of, then switch back to player control and a following camera.
6. Physics. I want the ability to build up speed on my own power, including when running through loops, not have to use dash pads everywhere. Being able to roll to build up more speed on curved ground like on Genesis would be handy too. This isn't completely necessary to getting Sonic into the bigtime again, but it would make the game more interesting.
Sonic. Rush. 2.
Sonic Rush happens to be my favourite game, given that I've played it enough to know every single route and get world record speed runs.
Give me my sequel and I might buy another Sonic game! Even if it's just another 50 minute game, it'll be Sonic Rush 2, darn it. KITTY WAAAANTS!
Man Sonic Rush 2 will never happen despite how well it sold. =(
Also Vec about you ideas, do you think it is possible the current Sonic Team could pull that off or do you think that a different Sega team should handle the main franchise from now on?
Sonic Team keeps changing personnel so who knows? They definitely need to have somebody other than whoever came up with STH360. I liked that Iizuka seemed to get the idea of branching paths, guessing from some press releases, and increased interactivity with each game, so I was hoping he'd eventually get closer to what I'm looking for, but I'm not even sure he's still in Sonic Team. Maybe Sonic would be redeemed when fans eventually take control, as what seems to be happening in Archie, but since most Sonic fans are in the west and Sonic Team is Japanese that may not happen. And it'd have to be talented fans, since a lot of the ideas I hear are pretty bad.
What about Toshihiro Nagoshi?
Though I'm probably saying this because he seemed to be prominent last gen, and he's one of the few talented people Sega has left.
If Sonic is outsourced it could be even worse the best example is the recent Broken Sword Angel of Death it was outsourced and although it was overseen by the main guy from Revolution it totally sucked. If Sega did outsource it would they care who they gave it to probably not.
I didn't like Sonic Rush that much. To me it just played like an evil version of Sonic Advance 2. I wanted to like it, Bosses were awesome though.
I agree with the comments Vec said really. Either that or Sonic 4. The sad thing is though when you read reviews of Sonic Next it just sounds like the same old (crap controls, camera and lack of glitch testing). Oh well.
If Sonic is outsourced it could be even worse the best example is the recent Broken Sword Angel of Death it was outsourced and although it was overseen by the main guy from Revolution it totally sucked. If Sega did outsource it would they care who they gave it to probably not.
OBJECTION!
The Sonic Advance, Battle and Rush series were all outsourced to a company called DIMPS. Many fans regard them to be far superior to their 3d counterparts of the era, with the exception fo Advance 1 or 2.
Eh, compared to the recent console games even Advance 1 and 2 were better.
1 wasn't that bad either..
This honorable delegate concurs with Craig. What this world needs is another game along the lines of Sonic Rush. 2D Games, 3D world, multiple routes, multiple characters for said multiple routes, fun/unpredictable boss fights...
Basically, take everything Sonic Rush did right and RUN with it. Sonic Rush, as of right now, is the only reason I haven't completely lost faith with the Sonic Franchise.
When I read this topic title, I thought "A miracle".
Am I a bad person 🙁
For me nothing as I don't think I could love it anymore than I do if I tried, but for everyone else, I guess just fix all the things that annoy everybody and maybe also cut back on the story seeing as how most don't care for the stories either. Maybe just have cutscenes without voice acting so it will kinda be like the "cutscenes" in S3&K that everyone seems to love so much.
Since DIMPS has more or less severed ties to Sega, a part of me wants to see Treasure take on a 2D Sonic game. However, I never played any of Treasure's recent games so I'm not so sure if the Treasure of today is of the same quality of the Treasure of the 16-bit and 32-bit era.
Sega won't pay for Treasure. They were willing to pay two-- no, three fairly obscure developers (DIMPS, Jupiter and Backbone) to produce the Sonic handheld titles when they were still relative unknowns (and thus, cheaper to hire!).
TOSE then?
🙁
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4. Proper use of multiple characters. It was one of S3&K's biggest strengths. Multiple characters should be an option, not a requirement to open a "last story." They should either play the same levels and open up more areas with their abilities, or have cool enough gameplay to really warrant having their own game (only Gamma has warranted separate levels, and I'd rather have shooting in the same stages with some unlockable paths anyway). Don't make characters artificially slow just for variety (SA2 shooting stages, Big). That's very annoying.
This I agree with.
I was replaying Sonic and Knuckles the other day. I was bored with Sonic, so I decided to give Knuckles a run. To me, Knuckles game was definitely a lot harder than Sonic's game, especially in Sandopolis. I had played as Knuckles every now and then, but this time I found an area I had never seen before. Plus, the layout for Lava Reef was different from Sonic's game. It really set Sonic and Knuckles apart from the other Sonic games.
Sonic Adventure at least attempted varied game play. Sure, some of the stages were the same, but for the most part the gameplay was different for each character. A good example would be Casinopolis. With Sonic, you could play around with the pinball machines and take a run in the sewers if you wanted. With Tails, you were only confined to the sewers, but whereas Sonic's version was more leisure, Tails's version was more fast-paced due to the race aspect. This carried over even to Knuckles's time in this stage. Sure he was confined strictly to the main lobby, but using his gliding and climbing abilities gave him access to places Sonic couldn't reach.
True, it would take more than just this to stop Sonic's decline, but it sure would be a nice start.
Okay, I'm done rambling.
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The Sonic Advance, Battle and Rush series were all outsourced to a company called DIMPS. Many fans regard them to be far superior to their 3d counterparts of the era, with the exception fo Advance 2 or 3.
Fixed.
But Battle was outsourced to Jupiter.
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6. Physics. I want the ability to build up speed on my own power, including when running through loops, not have to use dash pads everywhere. Being able to roll to build up more speed on curved ground like on Genesis would be handy too. This isn't completely necessary to getting Sonic into the bigtime again, but it would make the game more interesting.
Actually, I think it is more necessary than you think as physics and a sense of weight behind the character seemed to be a pretty big factor in the 2D games. It partially seperated Sonic from the other platformers at the time in addition to the speed.
I would be nice to have a 3D Sonic that is more weighty and the game emphasize physics, though it will have to be done by some pretty talented programers that aren't pressured to rush their work.
Going back to the insta-death traps, even though I realize they were the bane of the 2D era, could Sonic Team please bring back water levels?
I can't recall any other stage other than Aquatic Mine in SA2 where water didn't kill you on contact. It's so aggravating to overshoot a vine or ledge in the jungle levels and die as soon as I touch the water.
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When I read this topic title, I thought "A miracle".
HAHA! That's about right THS. Or so I believe. Since the transition to 3D ST has had some real problems. SA was great just because it was the 1st fully 3D free roaming Sonic game. SA2 was a slight improvement in graphics, but the problems began getting the criticism here. From there pretty much every 3D game has failed. If Sonic Team was to revert back to 2D and have the same dedication and creativity they did once upon a time ago, I think they'd be up there again. Or close atleast.
Honestly I don't see the Sonic series ever getting back to where it was. As people have said, the main people have left and so many things have changed since their glory days. Sad, but true(from my perspective). =/
I agree with Veckum's analysis. Secret Rings and its on-rails gameplay are a stop-gap measure. If the franchise is ever to get back on track....it needs a well-developed fully roaming 3D game.
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Actually, I think it is more necessary than you think as physics and a sense of weight behind the character seemed to be a pretty big factor in the 2D games. It partially seperated Sonic from the other platformers at the time in addition to the speed.
I would be nice to have a 3D Sonic that is more weighty and the game emphasize physics, though it will have to be done by some pretty talented programers that aren't pressured to rush their work.
I said it's not necessary to make the series top notch again, because I'm comparing it to the rest of the market, not Sonic games. So if we're asking what it would take to make another Sonic game that would match what I want and outdo S3&K while staying true to the spirit of Sonic games, I have a few additions.
7. Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Espio, Vector playable (among others, but those are the 5 I care about). Rouge and a shooter such as Omega would be nice too. Some kind of customizable team system would be a bonus, whether it's switchable like Heroes or the other characters assist like Tails in S3&K. Some characters could play NPC roles such as giving missions or being assistance (I could see Charmy and/or Cream being like Lakitu in Mario Kart and saving you from holes while you lose rings, levels, or use up the timer, removing the major annoyance of pits from Sonic 3D games while still making them a factor in your score).
8. Psychadelic cubist/abstract locations that feel artsy. Heroes and Secret Rings seem to deliver on this, while SA2 and arguably others have too many realistic and undistinctive locations.
To the original topic what will make Sonic popular again. Simple.
Clone the City of Heroes MMO engine, hell even most of the player abilties. Next replace all the character models with Sonic style animals with a character creation engine similar to what the game has currently. Third, keep it at ten a month like PSU as an incentive for MMO junkies to save a little money and of course over-advertize like crazy to capitialize on both the people still crazy for Sonic Games AND the market's current affinity for pay to play MMORPG's.
Finally, sit back and let the money roll in.
~Tobe
^Somehow, I think that will make things worse for the franchise.
It's the next logical step though. They can't possibly go any LOWER with single player games so it's time to drag out the straws to grasp at and try to steal SoE's thunder as the king of worthless online games. 
~Tobe
That's the best way to make short-term profit. But you know such a game would instanly become City of Yiffers and Sonic's brand name would go down the toilet.
You mean it hasn't already?
No, not really, because there is heavy demand for a good Sonic game. Lots of bad games get released, but how many get the hype for thier badness that Sonic360 does? That's a big difference. People want the franchise to be good, or else Sonic360 wouldn't get so much reaction.
It would also be nice if they made Eggman a threat again, since he is the primary bad guy of the series. They need to stop with the whole "Eggman finds a super powerful being/weapon that turns on him and he has to help save the day" schtick.
ya rly
Why the hell does is it matter?
It's not your call on what should be done, calling the shots is something that Sonic Team should do, not a mere fan of little opinion. And Wonderbat for you..........................Shadow Rocks, get over it.
Why are you still here?
If only I had the ability to change titles and usernames...
But to answer your question, Shadow's Love Slave, I want to be able to play a good console Sonic game instead of insectavore feces that makes Bratz: Forever Diamonds look like Okami
Hmmmm.
I actually like the Trasure idea, since they are, after all, still producing good games (Freak Out/Stretch Panic and Gradius 5 come to mind).
Personally, I'd like to see Sonic take the Kolonoa 2.5d route, although history suggests those don't sell particularly well.
Alternately, resurrect the Sonic Xtreme level templates and ideas. They worked.
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Shadow Rocks, get over it.
Can you please make a post that doesn't involve you insulting people? Or you know what? Don't post. How you haven't been banned yet is proof that the Devil exists.
While Sonic maybe has lost its way, they're still incredibly underated. I thought Sonic Heroes was great. Battle too. The characters need to be shortened. Prehaps SEGA should hire Ian Flynn?
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All the characters you need are Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Eggman. Metal Sonic and Amy on occasions. Since I do find it a bit unfair that Knuckles is supposed to be more Classic Sonic when Amy and Metal appeared before him.
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Alternately, resurrect the Sonic Xtreme level templates and ideas. They worked.
I think I could die happy if they revived Metal Sonic MKIII. He'd have been a lot better for Sonic Heroes than Metal Sonic.
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I think I could die happy if they revived Metal Sonic MKIII. He'd have been a lot better for Sonic Heroes than Metal Sonic.
Could be, could be.
But what I really meant about Xtreme was the control system and camera.
What I'm worried about is that we haven't heard from Shadowshomeboy1-16 yet...
Anyways. Whilst in my first post I agreed with what Vec said. But that game might never happen unless the powers that be are every allowed to develop the game beyond the time limit from Sega.
So I'm thinking a series of good Sonic games rather than on of those BRAND NEW VISION OF RETURN TO THE ROOTS PROMISE TO FIX THOSE PROBLEMS WHILST STILL BEING CONTROVERSIAL HAI GUYS REVOTHINGYGUMMY Sonic games that come out every now and again that don't fix any of the problems from the previous games.
Just basic, inoffensive platformers where Sonic doesn't oversteer into pits of death on levels suspended in the middle of the air and where the cameraman actually knows where Sonic is going. Yes because in every game there are cameramen. And there they can do as much fan wankery as possible because I have a nice 3D Sonic game to play.
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Personally, I'd like to see Sonic take the Kolonoa 2.5d route, although history suggests those don't sell particularly well.
That's because Klonoa was never popular and Sonic Rivals is on a system where most software released generally doesn't sell that much.
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That's because Klonoa was never popular and Sonic Rivals is on a system where most software released generally doesn't sell that much.
I was also looking at Viewtiful Joe.
Mecha Sonic MKIII...character that was supposed to be in Sonic Xtreme, maybe? Anywho, 2.5d is the way to go IMO. 3D could work, but ST/Sega/whoever can't do it. I want old schoolness to the max. Take some risks..even if it isn't speculated to bring in as much revenue, try it ST. Sonic Rush,IMHO, is the best Sonic game i've played that came out this millenium. Just saying. =P
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I was also looking at Viewtiful Joe.
But VJ was successful, at least the first game was.
Was the show successful, too, or did it go the way of Sonic X?
Maybe Sega should give Sonic to Nintendo, They actuually pull off a great 3-D Game.
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But VJ was successful, at least the first game was.
The PS2 version flopped dismally, however.
That's because everyone who wanted VJ owned or bought a GCN for it. The audience was on the GCN. It's the same case in the U.S. for Sonic, Super Monkey Ball and Tales of...
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3. Level design. Most zones should have floor levels under them, not a pit. The non-linearity is a necessity because otherwise there is not enough depth to the game, even with customizable moves and so on. Any linear Sonic game that actually lives up to te franchise would have to be drastically different in a way that people would react harshly to, i.e. focusing on battle, in order to include enough depth to go up there with the top titles.
That I agree with. I used to like bottomless pits, the thrill of being up high (even if it was a video game), but it's so over-used now it's boring and I miss those times where you fell onto ground and had to go around and around instead of wasting lives
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It would also be nice if they made Eggman a threat again, since he is the primary bad guy of the series. They need to stop with the whole "Eggman finds a super powerful being/weapon that turns on him and he has to help save the day" schtick.
That too or no more new villians. There are already plenty of new villians by now. At the very least bring back Metal Sonic. And not like the Metal Overlord look either.
Oh yeah no more special stages. Or at least not the ones like in heroes. I hates them my precious 
:"> maybe no more chaos emeralds either. Use some other gimmik.
And no dumb pairings okay Amy chasing Sonic is fine Rouge flirting with Knuckles fine Shadow friends with Maria fine but Sonic and Elise made me want to bash my head against a wall
Something related:
1up's Jeremy Parish discuss 5 ways, how Sega can fix the Sonic franchise:
That Article was so full of light it almost blinded me.
