Heh, well, yes, it is difficult to go against the tide. However, it happens a lot here. I do it all the time when my views doesn't conform. I'm a fan of the English voices I've heard and defend them from time to time. I see no point in doing it all the time though. ;p
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But then again that might be because he's already trained to be a "Simon" of video games most likely.
Or maybe he personally thought the game was average and had a few problems that prevented it from being a AAA game.
Geez, thinking that there is some hidden conspiracy on how all profressional reviewers are trained or preconditioned in reviewing certain games/franchises reek of paranoia BS.
Average? He seemed ready to give the game a straight F. Thats all I'm saying.
And when I was talking about being preconditioned I was talking about the voices not the game itself. And yes when a franchise has had a run of faliures, how simple is it to just think the next game is also gonna suck? Pretty easy if you ask me. And I never said All critics are this way. I was only talking about that one guy.
Y'know, I'm technically part of the Sonic Fanbase and I'm not insulted at all by the review under discussion, primarily because I know that the comments in it are aimed at fans of Sonoc Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog, neither of which includes me.
This has probably been said before, but the first thing that needs to happen for this franchise to be loved again ... is to have something to love in the first place.
Obviously Shadow the Hedgehog and Sth 06 didn't cut it. You can't love something that isn't fun. (I'm sure those two games were somehow fun to some random people here, but I'm talking to the masses).
I listened to an IGN podcast that discussed Secret Rings...they were far less sympathetic than the two at EGM. But that's what happens when you get official Mario fanboys like Matt Cassamassina to review a 3D Sonic title.
OHNOS! THEY DON'T LIEK A SONIC GAEM! THEY MUST BE MAAAAREEOH FANBOIS!! *crys*
What the hell is this? 1993?
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Average? He seemed ready to give the game a straight F. Thats all I'm saying.
I never got that feeling from Greg's point of view seeing that he also had some positive points about the game also, even if it wasn't on the level of Shane. I think a few people here are being too paranoid about reviewers.
To people like Cassamassina...yeah, it is 1993.
I've been tracking what Cassamassina has written about the Sonic series over a few years now, and he's written such blatantly baised things such as "3D Sonic has been broken since the very beginning. Sonic Adventure was a mediocre game never deserving of its original high praise, and it was certainly no counterpart to Mario 64." Recently, he's gone on record saying that "Sonic has no business in fully-roaming 3D. It's good that Secret Rings is on-rails."
And he's even admitted to being a card-carrying Mario fan.
Well believe it or not, there are people who hate the 3D Sonic games and/or there are people will argue with you on how they've aged pretty poorly over the years.
And you only told me that he hates the 3D games which isn't that fair of an indication that he's biased against the entire franchise. What is his opinon on the 2D games?
Even I would admit that SA1 isn't aging particularily well...but it was great in its day back in 1999...what Cassamassina is saying is that the game was garbage from the beginning on the Dreamcast.
And I didn't say he was biased against the entire franchise...he just really really hates 3D Sonic because he was bred on 3D Mario. Hell...he's even bashed the music of 3D Sonic, criticizing Sega for actually making new tunes rather than doing what Nintendo does with Mario and constantly remixing the oldies.
What, you think remixing/rearranging one familar tune is a bad thing? If anything it is part of what gives a series a sense of idenity. I mean the SMB theme and the FF victory theme are some of the more reconizable pieces of music in this industry, and I wouldn't mind if Sega used the GHZ music more to give Sonic a kind of constant musical idenity that he's been arguably missing for years.
And there are plenty of people who prefer the 3D Mario games over the 3D Sonic ones, however, I wouldn't exactly call them anti-Sonic fans as they could also be people who adore the Classic Sonic games or just the 2D Sonic games in general.
Hell...he's even bashed the music of 3D Sonic, criticizing Sega for actually making new tunes rather than doing what Nintendo does with Mario and constantly remixing the oldies.
I'm pretty sure both Super Mario 64 and Sunshine had completely new themes, the original only being used in some small areas like the puzzle box platforming sub levels in Sunshine. New SMB also had new themes, as do all the RPG titles and character based spin offs...
Ashide....thats all I'm saying. I'm not trying to debate with you, stop ripping apart my comments. I'm not trying to go head to head with you. Can I just give my opinion without you biting my fingers? It's not paranoia. It's opinion. People deserve to have them.
And you don't think people wouldn't respond to your or anyone else's opinions?
And if I came off a bit too harsh at you, it wasn't my intention. I appologize.
People usually like the remixed tunes it give them a since of nostaga(sp)? Besides the first SA hasen't aged well at all.
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And there are plenty of people who prefer the 3D Mario games over the 3D Sonic ones,
These people include me, I might add.
I like the first Sonic Adventure (if no other 3D Sonics), but it's certainly no SM64.
Very few things ARE SM64, though.
I have a best friend who's a lifelong Mario fan, but also enjoys Sonic games, both 2D and 3D. Oddly enough, he prefers SA over SM64...for its music! Go figure...
SM64 had awesome music--especially Dire Dire Docks!
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Y'know, I'm technically part of the Sonic Fanbase and I'm not insulted at all by the review under discussion, primarily because I know that the comments in it are aimed at fans of Sonoc Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog, neither of which includes me.
I like Sonic Heroes so saying I like Tails porn is ok? Hmm.
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I've been tracking what Cassamassina has written about the Sonic series over a few years now, and he's written such blatantly baised things such as "3D Sonic has been broken since the very beginning. Sonic Adventure was a mediocre game never deserving of its original high praise, and it was certainly no counterpart to Mario 64."
That is completely true. SA is a mediocre game with outstanding presentation. It got praised because it was released on the most powerful console at the time (quite beautiful graphically and in non-vocal music), and everybody was so glad to have a Sonic game since there hadn't been a Sonic platformer in ages. Before Dreamcast, 3D console games had crappy-looking polygonized graphics. SA was like the first major 3D platformer to have graphcs that were actually as appealing as the 16-bit era.
Sonic Adventure's core concept was broken. It was much more so than any of the less well reviewed sequels (except perhaps STH360 which I haven't played), which actually improved on the interactivity. Sonic's levels were linear runs through scenery, Gamma and Amy's had good gameplay but super short games, Big's game was awful, Tails' was just short racing versions of Sonic's levels, and Knuckles' was very much a matter of taste.
Mario 64 is just as praised now as it was when it came out, if not more so because the industry, including Miyamoto, has had so much difficulty topping it even in 10 years, because it wasn't dependent on production values. The music even sounds awesome when somebody writes it in MIDI. The 2D Sonic games are simlarly praised even though they relied on presentation, because the core of the game is superb and the beauty of the graphics is more in the style than the pixel count. Mediocre games that make their mark with presentation become seen as mediocre when others catch up (see the aforementioned Country, Donkey Kong 1).
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Recently, he's gone on record saying that "Sonic has no business in fully-roaming 3D. It's good that Secret Rings is on-rails."
However, that's just stupid. Just because the current devs can't handle 3D that means the franchise can't? Nonsense. You can't say that about ANY gaming character - why should the character restrict the ability to make a good roaming 3D game?
Wow that was deep. I mean nobody would have thought cute fuzzy Conker would turn into the potty mouthed, rude joking, beer chugging squirrel he is today. But Conker's Bad Fur Day is a great game. It pretty much has a cult following that is still growing even though the Nintendo 64 is obsolete. And its not because of the X-Box release either. And Naughty Dog's Jak series is very popular and the original game, Jak and Daxter, had no guns and was pretty much a nicer looking Crash Bandicoot with different characters.
So change is good. I can't say change is good for EVERYTHING. But for really old franchises change is whats needed to give it life.(Maybe Nintendo is trying that with Mario Galaxies? Although I've seen the same planet hopping theme in Ratchet and Clank: GC But it seems this Mario game will have more flare) If Sega had never brought Sonic out of its side scrolling era. Do they really think Sonic wouldn't have been forgotten by now?
Like I said, Veckums, the game hasn't aged well. But it was good in 1999, and I have nothing but fond memories of it. Cassamassina's comments, though, seem to stem from his hatred of the very concept of Sonic in fully-roaming 3D.
Here's the IGN review:
wii.ign.com/articles/766/766214p1.html
Done by Cassamassina himself. Still think he's unbiased?
What do people look for in game critics for their websites and magazines? I mean you don't go to college for this do you? So what does it take?
Generally, it's not "go to college to learn to review games" but "go to college for English/journalism."
Otherwise it's just showing you know how to do what they want you to do.
An interesting, if not depressing post at 1up from the thread that spun Parish's article:
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DJFACT50 wrote:
I actually had to sign up to 1-Up again just to comment on this thread. A co-worker of mine forwarded it to me (we both used to work at SEGA).Anyways, speaking as someone who has actually seen what Sonic games go through to get released... I have just one major thing to say.
Sonic Team does not care about it's non-japanese audience. Sonic Team is treated like royalty by SEGA, they can do whatever the hell they want, and they think every idea they have is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Oh and don't you dare try to tell anyone in Sonic Team they are wrong, unless you like being unemployed.
It doesn't matter if their plots are completely incoherent (cough*ShadowtheHedgehog*cough), if they have a bigger cast than The Longest Day, or if they have completely lost touch with reality, Sonic Team will keep pumping out horrible games. I have lost all faith in SEGA over the last few years. I was the Assistant Lead (QA) on Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, Sonic Riders, and Shadow the Hedgehog. I left SEGA shortly before Riders was released, and I don't miss it one bit. The QA dept their was the best back in 2000 and prior, but after the massive management shifts and changes of power, QA became the long forgotten dept, and was treated like @#%$ by the rest of the company (I now work for Lucasarts, who truly value their QA teams).
But back to the subject at hand... We had a meeting to offer our input on future Sonic games about a year before the latest game was announced, and guess how many of our ideas they used?? None! Yeah that's right! Once again Sonic Team is God, and can do no wrong. Who cares about gameplay, or the fun factor of the game. A camera?? WTF is a camera?? LOL
It's too bad too because their were some truly awesome suggestions in that meeting (sorry I can't reveal more, I did sign an NDA with SEGA, and who knows, maybe they'll use some of those suggestions in the future? Doubtful though)
Well anyways, that my .10 cents, hope that sheds some light on your opinion of the series, and dashes your hopes of ever seeing sonic return to form (unfortunately).
🙁
*Return of the Jedi music plays as I slowly place a flaming torch on my Sonic stuff set up in a bonfire, I step back and watch it burn to dust as I wipe away a tear*
Goodbye, old friend...
Could you provide the link, please?
That is quite depressing reading. I do actually hope it is just the ramblings of someone bitter because they were fired from The Sega.
But then again... 
I guess this explains why games that aren't developed by Sonic Team seem to be more popular and successful.
Toby: source of the post
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Oh I forgot to mention, when Shadow was in development, and they were trying to get it approved for release, I kept telling everyone how horrible the gameplay was, and that they should delay it to work out the control kinks. Hell we didn't even get to test all of the game paths! So some of the later levels got little to no QA time! I am so glad to work somewhere now where the QA teams opinion is not only respected, but listened to and valued.
Jeez, it sounds similar to OCB's reports before he too left Sega. =/
Sega needs to purge Sonic Team completly. Just start over with new people. Does the Japanese audience even like their sonic games?
No, they just need management that's willing to listen to its QA department and press development teams a little harder in a few areas here and there. Obviously, the management here right now just doesn't get it.
And yes, it's really just the management, I'd say. Considering Sega's still capable of producing good games (take VF5 or, apparently, Secret Rings, as examples), the fault can't entirely lay with them, and indeed, I'd like to see them stick around to keep producing good titles. I don't really think it's THEIR fault, necessarily, that QA is treated like crap - although they could probably be a little less haughty, true enough.
There is nothing wrong with most Sega games really. Outrun 2, Virtua Fighter 4 Evo, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Yakuza, Super Monkey Ball are all great games.
But the problem seem to be with Sonic Team. Phantasy Star Universe was described as a bit soul-less and we all know about Sonic Next.
Edit: Plus everything SH said.
I agree with the guy who say restart the whole Sonic Team. I had hopes for Shun Nakamura, but he ended creating a game worse than if Iizuka was director. Like I said in my previous post, maybe the sonic games should got to a new developer.
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There is nothing wrong with most Sega games really. Outrun 2, Virtua Fighter 4 Evo, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Yakuza, Super Monkey Ball are all great games.
All of those titles were made by the only Sega teams with talent, AM2 and the former AV/Smilebit combo. That's 2.5 out of how many teams Sega had?
Sega wasn't anything special on the console front after the death of the DC. For every Orta there was a Virtua Quest and Altered Beast around the corner. And we all know how poorly their most profitable series has been treated.
Man. Its dangerous out there in the video gaming world. Everybody is a bastard....you really gotta now how to play your cards right!
I always had a feeling that Sonic Team is largely apathetic towards their non-Japanese audiences. It sickens me. It really does. The SatAM boxset may be the last Sonic-related purchase I ever make...until the franchise is taken away from Sonic Team. Here's hoping Ogawa takes the reigns of the main series...
Even more hilarious is that their non-Japanese audience is the only thing keeping the franchise alive for 15 years.
Wasn't Ogawa the co-producer of Sonic 2K6 or did he totally jump ship with the production of Sonic Wii?
He jumped ship with Secret Rings.
I think that the RPG-inspired story of Sonic 2006 was Sonic Team's last-gasp effort to draw back their dwindling Japanese fanbase. If they had any sort of sense left in them, they should just give up on trying to win those fans back and instead focus on keeping their growing-increasingly-weary western audience happy.
But, as that former employee's testimony points out so well, it would seem they don't have any sense left. Like I said, I hope Ogawa takes control, and gives all his subordinates a swift kick in the pants.
What's so great about Japan anyway? Why do they get priority over the rest of the world?
Japan is Sonic Team's native people...that's what makes them so special. Americans are kinda the same way when they view the rest of the world...they give preferential treatment to other Americans. Are these esoteric views wrong? I would say so, especially in Sonic Team's case...
Weird. in someone's earlier post they said that Japan's fanbase for Sonic is shrinking.
And this is a little off topic. But apparently Sonic Team is shutting down Phantasy Star Online servers. Does anybody know anything about this?
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Weird. in someone's earlier post they said that Japan's fanbase for Sonic is shrinking.
It is. Sonic was never popular in Japan like he is in NA and PALand, but his Mega Drive games sold way more than his DC and post-DC games there. Sonic 2K6 was a larger flop there than here with only 6,500 units for the PS3 version being sold and 1,000 units for the Xbox 360 in it's opening week.
To put it in perspective, Resistance:The Fall of Man, an FPS which is an unpopular genre in Japan moved 15,000 in it's opening week. Yikes!
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And this is a little off topic. But apparently Sonic Team is shutting down Phantasy Star Online servers. Does anybody know anything about this?
The servers were shut down months ago.
Oh seriously? I'm slow.
Someone tell me, cause I'm confused. I've heard that Shadow's game sold well in Japan. Why? O_o
Shadow the Hedgehog didn't sell well in Japan.
Well if the Japanese don't like him. They might as well cater to us.
But they can't. After all, everyone knows that Japan is the "end all, be all" capital of the world. I mean, heaven forbid anyone put the great and mighty Japan aside to focus on an area where a product sells well.[/sarcasm]
I don't know, Hideo does pretty well by it.
Recently Japanese developers have been catering for the western audience because the audience in Japan in general was dwindling on PS2, this is pretty evident by most Japanese 360 games.
