*sigh*
I explained already, 60hz is a different frequency, and I can hear and feel the difference, it's like a constant high pitched squeal, which gives me a headache after too much play. It has nothing to do with my eyes. Can you stop trying to argue me on this, and accept that I cannot play 60mhz mode and the 50mhz mode is flawed to the point of not being able to play.
i'm just trying to help.
if it's your hearing i can't really give any advice on that, anyway. so i'll stop here.
*slips Craig an Advil*
It's not really healthy to take advil when you can use other methods to avoid the headaches. 😛
But we're drifting dangerously off-topic!
Well getting back on topic, who of us hasn't dream of a 3 player group of Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles. Admit it, you've been thinking something like that since like 10 years. Sonic running with Tails and Knuckles following.
Yeah, we probably did. Shame that the concept turned out to be terribly flawed.
That's one of the reasons people hated it. It promised so much, Green Hill styled checkered cliffs made us think it'd have classic level design, 3 at once sounded great on paper and METAL SONIC!
We were... underwhelmed.
Like. Seriously.
Green Hill styled checkered cliffs made us think it'd have classic level design
But, that was only for screenshots of two levels. Other preview screenshots of other levels didn't show a checkerboard pattern
Not every level of Sonic 1 had a checkerboard, either.
You must remember, when we only had about 5 screenshots to go on, the hills were a VERY big deal. That and Omega, who we didn't know anything about at first.
Then you have the whole war of forums starting because a certain someone revealed the Chaotix info and no one believed him, then there was all this "stealing images" stuff and... yeah.
Heroes hype was a FUN time!
You know, I really shouldn't have said "every level of Sonic 1 didn't have a checkerboard, either" without actually making sure every level DIDN'T have a checkerboard... >_>;.
But uh... yeah. Sonic Heroes could have been alot better had it had an actual story. But how do you tell an even partial convincing story with 12 characters and two villains?
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You must remember, when we only had about 5 screenshots to go on, the hills were a VERY big deal. That and Omega, who we didn't know anything about at first.
Then you have the whole war of forums starting because a certain someone revealed the Chaotix info and no one believed him, then there was all this "stealing images" stuff and... yeah.
Heroes hype was a FUN time!
This is the same hype that brought me back to my interest to videogames. Good times. :p
Well, because the hype basically killed the fondness of the game, I came up with a moral:
"Hype is like medicine. The right amount will make a game good for you. An overdose, will kill the game for you."
Oh, it's still a bad game. It just got alot more hate because it made us love again, then killed us while we were embracing it.
Moral of the story: Sonic Heroes is Josh Hartnett.
I have no idea who that is. Anyway another thing that should give Sonic Heroes some appriciation is that the fact that... that....
*goes in a Shadow-like melodramatic mode*
It was the last the game to feature good to slightly above mediorce voice actors. Now we have slightly below mediorce to horrible voice actors. Curse you 4Kids. CURSE YOU!
*exits melodramatic mode*
If we only knew what was going to happen.
Sonic Heroes wasn't a bad game, but it was far from being the best. My biggest complaint was having 14 Levels with 8 missions each, the same gameplay the entire time, and required completeing 4 of those 8 missions to get to the final boss. SA2:B(The best of the 3D Sonics in my opinion) had 31 levels with 5 missions each, evenly divided amoung 3 distinct types of gameplay, and requiring complete only 1 mission per level. Sonic Heroes would've been better off with just one team due to how all 4 play almost identical. Basically I'm saying that Heroes has to little variety.
Now I can think of some ways that it could be improved.
To Improve Gameplay:
The main problem with the gameplay is that individual characters were watered down, and treated as 3 seperate enities. I would've either given each character their full powers(Think of Team Sonic with all their abilities from SADX) or have them controlled as a single character.
Controls for 3 as 1 set-up
Tab A: Jump
Double Tap A: Homing Attack
Hold A: Flight
Tab B: Rocket Accel
Hold B: Charge Spin dash
B mid-air: Tornado Attack
X: Power attacks
Y in flight: Thunder Shoot
Of course I'd rather have the 3 separate characters with FULL ablities. And how about a 3-player co-op mode where each member of a team is controlled by a different play?
To Improve Graphics:
Remove the shiny.
I really have no complaints in other areas.
I may love this game (like all Sonic games) but it is far from my favorite Sonic game. Still very fun though, but has no replayability.
I'm usually turned off by most people who hate this game. It's not that I don't respect their opinion but it does get old watching people continually bash this game. And it's either:
1) Reasonable Bashers: Most people who disliked this game posted this game gave at least ONE reasonable answer. So they're not actually bashers I just couldn't find another name.
2) Fake Bashers: Bash the game and they NEVER even played it. Just bashing it to jump on the band wagon.
3) Low Expectation Bashers: Worried that future games will suck because they thought Heroes sucked. For example, I saw some people worried about Sonic Riders and think it will stink as much as Heroes
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1) Reasonable Bashers: Most people who disliked this game posted this game gave at least ONE reasonable answer. So they're not actually bashers I just couldn't find another name.
You ask what someone thinks, they'll give you their answer. If they've played the game then any reason and opinion is reasonable. I, for one, share a similar opinion to Craig, except my major quarrel is with the gameplay rather than Metal Sonic.
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3) Low Expectation Bashers: Worried that future games will suck because they thought Heroes sucked. For example, I saw some people worried about Sonic Riders and think it will stink as much as Heroes
And with good reason. Think about it, if a game series you've loved since childhood suddenly releases a game that gets you so hyped up before it's released, and then just turns out to be less than a fizzle of what it claimed to be and prevous titles have been, it's gonna seriously affect your outlook on the future.
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But uh... yeah. Sonic Heroes could have been alot better had it had an actual story. But how do you tell an even partial convincing story with 12 characters and two villains?
But Heroes HAVE an actual story! It's up to the players to notice the details, telling the story.
A good friend of mine (Vlad the Vampire) just noticed them and wrote the story, based on those details.
Please forgive my bad english ^^;
The game is based on the revenge of Metal Sonic against Sonic. He'll take control of the entire Eggman's army by sealing him in one of his ship of his Egg Fleet. Then, Metal will search the ultimate power.
Well, what are the know powerfull "things" in Sonic's world at that time?
1) The Chaos Emeralds
2) (Perfect) Chaos
3) The Ultimate Lifeform known as Shadow the hedgehog.
At that time, Chaos hasn't reappeared yet (he will, but in Sonic Battle). And Metal Sonic can obtain his power.
How?
Chao data (As told in the official SA1 guide, Chaos is an evolved Chao) and Chaos Tail that Froggy had, the Tails' data are still in Froggy.
We know that the Chao are rare and they live near ruins or in the nature, in jungle... Eggman, from his cell (jail?) hires the Chaotix to free him and to make sure MS (let say it to designate Metal Sonic 
) won't have the power! The first and TRUE mission given by Eggman to the Chaotix is to find the Chao in Ocean Palace that the badniks (at MS's service/orders) want to have his data! And this Chao is in ruins of an old civilisation that have a relation with sea, water...what's better for a Chao? 
Speaking of badniks: In Heroes, thay don't have animals inside them anymore because they are at MS's service. MS claims he's the king of a robot kingdom. As an energy source, he uses the orange energy from the second level, that's why badniks invaded that city and that plant...he'd need to give energy to his robot army, no? (At that time, Sonic & Co are wondering why Eggman is searching for that energy, but they don't know the badniks works for MS...)
Return to the Chao: the Chaotix will have to find Chao again (to save them from MS) but this time, in their natural environment, the jungle! The badniks are everywhere and they search the Chao, some Chao are in cages guarded by badniks, others are still free! The Chaotix must do it without getting the attention of the badniks and, naturally, of MS (and the giant frogs), that's why Espio is needed!
At the end of the stage, they meet Team Rose, and there's a big quiproquo: Espio ask for Cheese to complete their mission because he sees a Chao, and Cream thinks that it's the Chaotix who kidnapped Chocola (because they want to take Cheese from her)!
The second thing MS wants to have Chaos's power is Froggy to get back the tail. At the end of Team Rose's story, MS says "Chaos data copied" when Chocola and Froggy are released. And in the movie where MS transforms, they insist on the creation of the tail, with a different color than the body to show that's an added part!
If MS made that fake newspaper showing Sonic kidnapping Chocola & Froggy, it's to make sure Cream will search them with Cheese and to absorb more Chao data!
Another thing: Eggman, for his new plan (before it's sabotaged by MS) had choosen the Middle Age/Heroc Fantasy as a theme. That's why his base is the haunted castle (with the great detail that Eggman's statue change into MS's statue if upside down, detail to make us think about what is going on there...) and the majority of the badniks are Middle-Age-themed (His soldiers, the warriors with hammer and knight's armor, wizards-badniks, etc) and his ultimate vehicle was the Egg Emperor, the chief/boss of that medieval, mechanical army...
There's ELEMENTS of a good story there. The idea of the chao and froggy was interesting. But the story doesn't go in-depth, it doesn't EXPLAIN. Only hardcore Sonic fanatics are going to know Froggy+Chocola+Other Chao=Chaos they need to EXPLAIN that kind of thing.
Except for Omega, all the dialogue was pretty horrific as well. (And Omega's dialogue was just funny, it wasn't good =S) The whole team gimmick thing was bothersome.
There's no sentimentality either. They don't focus in on Metal Sonic's plight, they don't focus in on Shadow as much as they should have. (Atleast if they were going to include him.) The Sonic series has kinda become about sap stories. Chaos, Shadow, Tikal, Gamma, all of these characters elicit sympathy. Omega? He's too big and boastful for us to sympathise with him. If they had done something kinda sympathetic like they did with Chaos Gamma, where he's a machine that knows nothing but destruction and power, then it might have been a bit better.
Team Rose? "Boo hoo we lost our friends and love interests." What were they doing playable in the game again? All three of these characters are interesting on their own, but together on a mission, the point to them is kinda lost. Same with the Chaotix, they were fairly amusing but what on earth was the point in the story? Sonic's involvement is pretty simple like it usually is. ("Eggman is up to no good, better stop him!") Tails kinda under-developed, problem is they should be getting an OLDER voice actor to do that role, not a younger one. (I mean an older boy, not a full-grown woman, by the way.) Knuckles is... eh, we all know what's wrong with Knuckles in this case. And Rouge is moderately OOC throught the dark story. ("OH YEAH BABY, THIS MAKES US A TEAM!", anyone?)
I would have forgiven Sonic Heroes' story if they did any of the following:
1. Have Rouge and Shadow discuss Shadow's past to some degree, rather than him being "I FORGOT MY PAST!!!!!!!!" "Umm, I was there and researched it, I could tell you if you want?" "FORGOTTEN PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAST!"
2. Have some reaction to Shadow's survival, even having Sonic say "I had a feeling that we'd see him again" would have been enough. Just SOME reaction.
3. A proper after fight speach to Metal Sonic. "WE'RE SONIC HEROES!!!!" doesn't cut it, they had 13 characters there. ONE of them could have polished the old "We have something to fight for" clich or implied Metal can never win because once he fulfils his programing he'll have nothing else. You know. Make something INTERESTING out of the scenario!
It was all just too crammed and shoved together. With 4 seperate stories, that's unforgiveable.
Still, it's better than 10 stories worth of stuff yo have to disregard.
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1. Have Rouge and Shadow discuss Shadow's past to some degree, rather than him being "I FORGOT MY PAST!!!!!!!!" "Umm, I was there and researched it, I could tell you if you want?" "FORGOTTEN PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAST!"
Yes, but I think he also want his memories back and since Rouge wasn't around then, telling him about his past wouldn't have cut it.
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2. Have some reaction to Shadow's survival, even having Sonic say "I had a feeling that we'd see him again" would have been enough. Just SOME reaction.
Well, Tails and Knuckles had some reaction and knowing Sonic, he's always kept cool. But for all we know, he could have been thinking:
"Hot Dog! Shadow's alive. Praise the Lord! I must be dreaming! I knew my answers would come true. W00T! W00T!
Yes, but I think he also want his memories back and since Rouge wasn't around then, telling him about his past wouldn't have cut it.
Good thing they never made a sequel with his entire motivation being a guy who could tell him about his past then.
Of course not.
They made a sequel with his entire motivation being SEVERAL guys who could tell him about his past. 😛
She could have atleast told him who Gerald was. And about their adventures on the ARK. (Though I'm guessing according to the ending she atleast told him that.)
No one really knew about his connection to Maria... other than Shadow mentioning her name to Rouge once.
I am of the opinion that Sonic Heroes is the worst game in the franchise. Because of this, about 10 minutes ago, I put my copy of Sonic Heroes under the Calvin and Hobbes 10th Anniversary Collection at the edge of a coffee table and violently snapped it in half with a Phillips head screwdriver. Casualties of this sort occur when you're bored and decide to replay crappy games without remembering just how frustrating and annoying they are.
...
You know what I haven't played in a while? Advance Wars. *grabs screwdriver and runs off*
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I am of the opinion that Sonic Heroes is the worst game in the franchise. Because of this, about 10 minutes ago, I put my copy of Sonic Heroes under the Calvin and Hobbes 10th Anniversary Collection at the edge of a coffee table and violently snapped it in half with a Phillips head screwdriver. Casualties of this sort occur when you're bored and decide to replay crappy games without remembering just how frustrating and annoying they are.
Okay if this is true then I have two things to say to you:
1) This is suppose to be a POSITIVE topic about Sonic Heroes. And your post just polluted it all up the most.
2) Grow up. Breaking something you could have possibly easily returned to the store is childish, selfish, and just plain stupid. Even people here who dislike the game surely didn't break it.
Technically it's a good thing for Sega that he destroyed the disc. If he returned it, it'd be sold as a pre-owned, which means cheaper for the consumer and thusly they'll buy it over something brand new. Brand new stock is ordered from Sega. Thusly, if he sold it, that's one potential 10 or so that Sega wouldn't be getting 
SonicV2:
1) I'm sorry if I have somehow offended you, but I think you''ll see not all of the responses in this topic are overwhelmingly "positive". I was just adding my input on the matter, which happened to be overwhelmingly negative.
If, as I expect, your problem is that I didn't provide valid reasons for hating SH, that's because it would just echo what everyone else has said. But if you really want me to rant on about why I hate the game, just say the word.
2) I suppose I could have sold it, but that would have been a much larger hassle and not nearly as much fun. It's a bit harder for me to sell games than most people, but please, feel free to call me childish, selfish, and stupid all you want.
Again, I apologize for whatever nerve of yours I've hit and gladly raise the white flag well in advance.
Oh, and Craig, I like Sega. Denying them 10 isn't really a priority of mine.
If destroying perfectly functioning games that you in all likelihood didn't pay for with your own money is your idea of fun, you need to grow up REAL fast.
Something positive about Sonic Heroes...
Okay, I did admit that I liked playing as Team Rose at first since their levels could actually completed at less than 5 minutes. I completed Team Sonic just cause they are the main team but I didn't bother finishing the others since I didn't think the game was worth it at that point.
Also, I did like the return to fantasy-like aestics after the realism of SA2 and I think I like SH OST more than SA2's.
Oh yeah, and I hope the money from Sonic Heroes was used to fund games like PSU, Ryu Ga Gotoku(aka Yakuza), and After Burner Climax because from what I seen, those are some promising titles.![:]](https://www.lighthead.net/misc/mofo/smilies/biggrinshaded.gif)
Again, I apologize for whatever nerve of yours I've hit and gladly raise the white flag well in advance.
I was irked for the fact you broke something in what seemed to be out of pure spite. You breaking something functional ticked me off more than you disliking Sonic Heroes.
I understand and respect what you're saying, and just hope that a difference of sensibilities doesn't turn your topic into a flame war.
