I have to say, on the graphuics front, I saw Motorstorm on a huge HGTV as part of the PS3 launch.
Please understand me when I say that it didn't look, to me, much better than the PS2 (less pop-up, slightly better textures), let alone the 360.
Graphics are a crappy, crappy reason for buying a console.
I like the idea of the Wii's controller. After I played with the PS2's eye toy camera at a friend's house I really liked it and my mom fell so much in love with it that she almost bought us a PS2, regardless of the fact that both her and my dad are anti-console people.
Her argument was that we'd finally move a bit while playing videogames, so for me the Wii would also get the approval of my parents.
Oh, and swinging a sword with the controller just sounds sexy to me.
Graphics aren't really a problem, as long as it's nice-looking and I prefer something cartoony over something uber-realistic.
Wii has backwards GC compatibility. As I've never been able to actually get a GC despite always wanting one, this is great. (I'll finally get to play SA2!! YES!!)
VC will allow me to play some titles I've never played before (the N64 ones and if the rumour about Saturn games is true then those, too)
The games I'm interested in also come out primarily on the Wii.
I'm a pro-Wii person and don't really like the PS3, but I still like you regardless of that. 
Try this: Take any PS3 game. Now think: "Would this game still be just as fun if I had to control it by stabbing my hand repeatedly with a knife?" For most of the PS3's games, no.
Are you saying using the Wii is akin to stabbing yourself?
"Try this: Take any PS3 game. Now think: "Would this game still be just as fun if I had to control it by stabbing my hand repeatedly with a knife?" For most of the PS3's games, no."
Are you saying using standard controls for Wii games is akin to stabbing yourself?
It's called embellishment. Saying "Would this game be as fun if I didn't *insert unique PS3 feature here*" isn't as funny.
~Tobe
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The problem I have with the Wii is that nearly all the games rely solely on the novelty of the controller.
Well, isn't that the point of the system? 
Also, from what I'm reading from the people who are complaining is that many of games so far have tacked on mini-games or tech demo, whatever. That actually reminds me of the first few months of the DS--only the DS wasn't as nearly as sought out from the casual market so early in it's life time.
Personally, I'm more interested in the Wii than the PS3 for it is cheaper, I'm interested in the Wiimote, and Intelligent Systems is still one of the best developers in the industry(SPM, yes please). I was pretty excited for the PS3 because of my adoration the PS1 and PS2, until E3'06 and the announcement of $600 price killed most of my interest in the console. And then there is that sinking feeling, that PS3 will become a 1st-party machine like the N64 and the GCN before it. The way the Wii is selling, it could be possible that it would become the PS2(or close to it) for this generation.
I could be wrong though seeing that both consoles only been on the market for 5 months, and this industry is very unpredictable. For example, no one thought that games like Brain Training and Nintendogs would be killer apps for the NDS. It's possible things can turn around for the PS3 if Sony makes some really smart desicions.
"Well, isn't that the point of the system?"
What I mean is that if you took most of the games from the Wii and put them onto any other system, using standard controls, there would be nothing special about them. I've seen all these games before. Rayman, Excite Truck, Red Steel, Far Cry- when you take away the new controls, there's nothing special about them. Zelda: Twilight Princess is the only exception. No matter how you controlled the game, it would rock. That's what I want from the Wii- games that would be fun no matter how you controlled them.
Excite Truck just makes me "o.o" at the fact that NOONE'S looked at the screenshots and realized "Hey, this kinda sucks. Poor graphics, the only good feature - the motion sensing in order to steer - is also available on hte PS3 (though nhonestly, I hate it on the PS3 too) but on the PS3, it has decent graphics, not this crap.
SX, I'm pretty sure there's a little more of a difference between Excite Truck and MotoStorm than just graphics... Unless I'm missing something from MotoStorm's review, it's just a straight up, smash'em up racer. ET adds a little twist: There are emblems scattered about the levels that suddenly change the terrain. One minute you're driving across flat plains, then POW, you've got a 50ft mountain. If you do tricks in the air, you earn points. Points unlock other levels.
If you are going to judge things, purely on screen shots, then you are going to miss out on a lot of good games. Hell, Earthbound looks like crap compared to the graphical beauty of FFIII(VI) and Chrono Trigger...
The GC did have Bongo controllers... those were cool right?
Anyway I'm happy with just my 360... it's fun seeing the PS3 exclusive stuff getting a cross-platform treatment. But for real, the Wiis the underdog so the fans are going to be more vehement about it.
The Wii is the underdog?
Man, what are you talking about? As things stand right now, the Wii is set to come in first by a mile. Granted, things can and do easily change, but if anything the PS3 is this generation's underdog.
Cinderblock:
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What I mean is that if you took most of the games from the Wii and put them onto any other system, using standard controls, there would be nothing special about them. I've seen all these games before. Rayman, Excite Truck, Red Steel, Far Cry- when you take away the new controls, there's nothing special about them. Zelda: Twilight Princess is the only exception. No matter how you controlled the game, it would rock. That's what I want from the Wii- games that would be fun no matter how you controlled them.
To be fair, the games you mention you have a problem with(especially Red Steel) seem to be considered as mediocre to average games, period. I'm curious to what's your opinion on games like Trauma Center or Elebits which are supposedly better games and where the Wiimote is the prefered control scheme to the regular controller?
SX:
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Excite Truck just makes me "o.o" at the fact that NOONE'S looked at the screenshots and realized "Hey, this kinda sucks. Poor graphics, the only good feature - the motion sensing in order to steer - is also available on hte PS3 (though nhonestly, I hate it on the PS3 too) but on the PS3, it has decent graphics, not this crap.
Probably because the people who enjoy Excite Truck don't give a rat's arse if the graphics are not as great as the top PS3/Xbox 360 games and are into it for the control and it's cheap? o.o
If people really cared about graphics, why is there such a great outcry for compatibility with older games ala PS2 and PSOne games able to play on the PS3? Or having the power to play XBox games on the 360?
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Are you saying using standard controls for Wii games is akin to stabbing yourself?
No, I'm basically boiling down your point to its core idea, which amounts to criticizing a game by saying: "Well, it wouldn't be good if X," where X is a purely hypothetical statement. Saying of a Wii game "It sucks because it wouldn't be good without the Wii Remote" is like saying of Ocarina of Time that "It sucks because it wouldn't be good if Link didn't have a sword" or saying of Star Trek "It sucks because it wouldn't be good without the sci-fi element" or "I hate the color Blue because it would be ugly if it wasn't Blue." None of those form any real basis for a valid criticism.
"To be fair, the games you mention you have a problem with(especially Red Steel) seem to be considered as mediocre to average games, period. I'm curious to what's your opinion on games like Trauma Center or Elebits which are supposedly better games and where the Wiimote is the prefered control scheme to the regular controller?"
Those games are different, though. The Wiimote's the only way to control those particular games well. They were designed to use it. Using a standard controller would be a bit trickier to do. I admit, those are both pretty good games, although I'm personally not interested in Elebits.
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If people really cared about graphics, why is there such a great outcry for compatibility with older games ala PS2 and PSOne games able to play on the PS3? Or having the power to play XBox games on the 360?
Just because we want our new stuff to look nice doesn't mean we don't still want to play our old stuff.
Yeeeah, I don't see why having new games means you can't play old games anymore; they were fun then and they can still be fun now. Ever played Tetris or Pong or something on a cell phone out of boredom? Those games are decades old.
Personally, I'm more upset about the backwards compatibility issue (here in the US it's only hte 360) because they still advertise that you have HUNDREDS OF CLASSIC GAMES in the library, when of those hundreds, only a dozen work. I haven't played PS1 games much on my PS2, and I haven't played PS2 games much on my PS3. It's still a nice feature to have.
I think it's ridiculous to imply that people don't care about graphics, honestly, and before you ask me WELL, WHAT MAKES YOU SAY THAT?! plz kindly wake the hell up.
Edit: If you do tricks in the air, you earn points. Points unlock other levels.
...points? points are what you're citing as making Excite Truck neat? points?! I'm seriously, seriously struggling not to break out the sarcasm.
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...points? points are what you're citing as making Excite Truck neat? points?! I'm seriously, seriously struggling not to break out the sarcasm.
SX, I'm trying, seriously trying not take this into another flame war between you and me, but you are seriously not making it easy.
IF you had read my entire reply, you would have seen the thing that makes Excite Truck 'different' is the sudden land transformations... Although the points idea seems pretty good... Maybe I can go design a Michael Boston Pro Skater franchise... hmmm
Yea yea graphics are nice, but if they never go beyond where the Wii is capable i'm alright. Honestly I think 3D polygonals was something that started a craze in the mid '90s. It's not so much about graphics now. Sure they matter, but not half as much as they have in the past('94-'02). As for backward compatibility it means alot to me. Basically equal to the new games that will come out for the new console. Once I get a PS3(2010) i'm going to play my PS2 library alot, even if thee are great PS3 games out i'm not going to abandon the games that brought the games of today, here. Besides sequels can't come without prequels(excluding Star Wars, curse you George Lucas..I thought I had something here; also excluding Devil May Cry - considering DMC3[maybe?] takes place before 1&2). You get my ponit though. No PS3 w/o PS2, and so on.
So yea SX update me on the PS3's BC, I remember hearing a good bit of stuff about PS2 games not working on it or something?
Who cares about how decent the graphics are as long as they mesmerize you into the game itself and are suitable at doing so. This is why I love the Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and even 2D games such as Golden Sun. No, they're not OMFG amazing graphics but they do the intended purpose they're there for: to mesmerise you into the game. They could be done oh so much better but it really doesn't matter.
Yea dude GS rocked @$$. I still haven't beaten that last boss. >_< But yea I was going to bring up WW as well. With the introduction of Cel-shading and other things like that realistic graphics are not what everyone wants anymore. Many games work well with realistic graphics sure, but some work fine with a different approach.
Improving little on graphics =/= Making the graphics worse than before
People need to stop thinking that about the Wii
Sorry, it's just that refusing to be able to keep up with everyone else, then saying "Well, we're going for a more cartoony" style just sounds like a cheapskate thing to do. As was ignored before, I don't feel graphics can make a poor game great, and a great game poor. HOWEVER, I don't know about a console that CAN'T have good graphics (by the standards set by the competition)
Hiro, if you can't make a civil post, you're welcome to simply not respond to me, of course. As for the instant landscape change...why? That sounds more annoying than anything else.
Haven't points been in most every game ever? And if you mean points as in like, level points, aren't those in most RPGs? I'm sorry, if that's unique, you aren't being very clear - what makes points unique to Excite Truck?
DPG, the PAL PS3 has software emulation for BC - which means about 75% of games are compatible. Of the list of games that AREN'T, a high amount of them are crap games (Sorry, but you'll have to forgo your Happy Feet.). As with the X360, Sony is releasing firmware updates to allow more games to have less errors. For all other PS3s, the BC is 100%.
Personally, I'm more upset about the backwards compatibility issue (here in the US it's only hte 360) because they still advertise that you have HUNDREDS OF CLASSIC GAMES in the library, when of those hundreds, only a dozen work.
This is a complete fabrication.
List of what looks to be at least 200 Xbox games compatible with Xbox 360
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Personally, I'm more upset about the backwards compatibility issue (here in the US it's only hte 360) because they still advertise that you have HUNDREDS OF CLASSIC GAMES in the library, when of those hundreds, only a dozen work. I haven't played PS1 games much on my PS2, and I haven't played PS2 games much on my PS3. It's still a nice feature to have.
I think it's ridiculous to imply that people don't care about graphics, honestly, and before you ask me WELL, WHAT MAKES YOU SAY THAT?! plz kindly wake the hell up.
If people cared about graphics, then why is there still an outcry for backwards compatibility? Perhaps because the games are fun, even if the graphics are from yesteryear (Granted some age better than others. Hello Genesis/SNES). Shoot, there are plenty who still early PSOne games and those graphics are terrible now but if the game is fun, who cares?
Hahhaa I was confused at seeing "DPG", SX but I remember thats what you call me. lol Anywho, graphics making a great game poor or a poor game great...I suppose I can agree with that at the moment. And as for "the cheapskate" thing. I don't think so. Look at Sin City. The director went with limited colors and shading to enhance the feel of the movie(comic book). Surely thats not a cheapskate way of getting out of filming it regularly. And as Torn said about PS1 games, those things are a geometry teacher's dream with all of the angles and polygons that are ever so evident. =P I recently obtained VOOM for my Saturn. Boy is it blocky, but boy does it kick major booty. *high-five to polygonal world*
Um, did they purposely use sh*tty-by-modern-standards cameras in Sin City, or did they just add an effect for a certain value (comic book effect)? I'm not saying games have to have perfect graphics or else they suck. there are games that may be more enhanced by "cartoony" or simple graphics. However, DPG, if EVERY SINGLE MOVIE in EVERY SINGLE genre was made in Sin City style, wouldn't that be kinda...wierd?
Cyc, my only reply is that you have absolutely no idea what the term "exaggeration" means.
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Sorry, it's just that refusing to be able to keep up with everyone else, then saying "Well, we're going for a more cartoony" style just sounds like a cheapskate thing to do. As was ignored before, I don't feel graphics can make a poor game great, and a great game poor. HOWEVER, I don't know about a console that CAN'T have good graphics (by the standards set by the competition)
Nintendo never really cared about graphics anyway and Miyamoto's petty comments about DKC proved that. And even then, Super Mario Galaxy and the Secret Rings looks good.
Actually, the PS3 backwards compatibility is something of a deception.
75% of games work, technically. Up to half of them, however, are glitched badly, and quite a few of the best titles on the system (Okami, God Hand, Rez, Gradius 5) don't work at all.
Sonic V2
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Nintendo never really cared about graphics anyway and Miyamoto's petty comments about DKC proved that.
I wonder how true that statement is seeing that Wind Waker will argueably age much better graphically than most of the games in that era and Yoshi Island is artistically appealing in many way more than DCK.
And then there is Mario Galaxy which currently blows 98% of the Wii games looks out of the water.
SX:
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Gaming in HD has spoiled me, then. I see most Wii games (There are exceptions) and I see lastgen technology. I'm serious, if you don't see a difference between this and this, you've got problems.
I know the Wii isn't powerful as the PS3 and the Wii at it's full potential wouldn't even match the full potential of PS3, but you don't think the more talented developers can really tap into the Wii's power, and pull off some nice looking Wii games in it's own right? I mean, this came from the weakest console from the PS2/GCN/XB era. You don't think most games that are not shoddy rush jobs will surprass that?
The Wii is supposedly more powerful than the Xbox, though not as powerful as the 360. The really fugly games will come from people who were rushed into getting their product on time for a cash in(see the crappy PS2 to Wii ports) or from people who really don't know what they are doing.
Also, what do you mean by a game having "cartoony graphics"?
I mean the graphics are less extreme-detail-"realistic" (read: shiny, dark, and sharp) than everyone's used to, but not in an "outdated graphics" way.
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...on the PAL PS3 do 75% of the games work. On hte otherPS3s, 100% work perfectly.
Okay...
So what do you classify the graphics in the following: Okami, Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon, and Mario Galaxy?
never played, never heard of, never heard of, never played. Too busy to look up screenshots.
Cyc, my only reply is that you have absolutely no idea what the term "exaggeration" means.
I think it's pretty obvious, based on your wording, that you were not exaggerating when you said "of those hundreds, only a dozen work." That does not sound like someone exaggerating. That sounds like someone saying "twelve Xbox 1 games work for the Xbox 360".
The truth of the matter is, almost 300 of Xbox's 500-or-so games work on the 360. Those 300 account for at least 90% of all the Xbox games that are even remotely worth playing. So, while a handful of must-have titles and about 150-200 sh*tty games are nowhere in sight, the 360's backwards compatibility is reasonably decent.
If you ask me, Microsoft should just let people play Xbox 1 games on Vista. It wouldn't be hard to implement, since the Xbox was just a sealed Wintel PC with off-the-shelf parts. Not to mention it would probably sell a lot more copies of Vista than just Halo 2, and some unsold Xbox 1 games that are gathering dust on store shelves.
Boston (7:46 pm): Ugh @ the Wii: Excite The PS3-Owning Pessimist thread...
Boston (7:47 pm): I'm just throwing my towel in before I do something stupid...
Boston (7:47 pm): If people would listen to reason it would be a fun arguement
Boston (7:47 pm): But I care not to argue with a brick wall
So here's my towel SX... enjoy it, but know that you're not winning this arguement
A dozen, Cyc? For Christ's sake, man, just shut up. You know you're losing when you can't make ME look that bad. Do you honestly, no-sh*t, think I seriously thought twelve Xbox games worked on the 360? twelve?! and isn't 300/500 60%? In any standard test, 60% is a failing grade. 60%! Just over half! Without taking into account your "almost."
Now. Less X360, this topic is about the Wii.
Sorry, Hiro, but I just checked my link - it works for me, oddly enough.
Hm. *nods* I think we've clearly established that SX wants nothing to do with what the Wii has to offer. I believe I have enough evidence now to produce a verdict.
This court finds the Wii...
... of being uniquely uninteresting. Nintendo is hereby ordered to come up with a new console that is JUST LIKE every other console currently on the market by the next console generation so that SX may be able to find interest in it, or face fines.
Court's closed. Everyone go home.
HAHAHAHAHAHA@ Psx's statement w/pics. Oh brother thats some comedy. XDXD! But Hiro come on now...thats cruel.
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Sorry, Hiro, but I just checked my link - it works for me, oddly enough.
It's probably because the pic is in your cache.
I managed to bypass the 403 and see the pic. I'll admit it looks better than the Wii offering, but it's not exactly a fair deal - the Wii image is about half the size to start off with, and the two racing games aren't exactly the same genre (One is arcade racing, the other realistic motorsport). I'd much prefer to see a HD-to-SD comparison on the same game, really (although that leaves, like, Call of Duty 3 and very little else if anything.). I'll admit I've never seen HD in action because I'm a poor little European, but if this is anything to judge by, all I see is that it's a bit sharper and a bit darker. Not enough to make or break a game or its graphics, methinks.
On THS's link, it's not that it's darker as much as it is SD is brighter. Look at the sky in several, the sky is almost white in SD, then it's natural blue in HD. And, look at this page, and tell me one isn't drastically sharper. When in full size, instead of those small graphics, it's drastically more noticable - in that, "a little fuzzy" becomes downright blurry when switching.
I don't really understand what arguement I'm losing here. I said at the beginning of the thread, for anyone with enough memory to go that far back, that I didn't want one and wouldn't buy one. I made this thread to ask, if it's the next Jesus, what does it have beyond some crappy gimmicks, channels with cheap, overrated features (pay for internet browser? What the hell, seriously?), and N64 graphics? (sorry, but when I look at my image of Excite Truck, I wouldn't be surprised to see that on the N64, probably with the expansion pack or something.) This thread is not "Convince SX to buy a Wii." This thread is "What the hell makes the Wii so superior that [Wii owners] can act so Holier-Than-Thou to the point of personal attacks?"
PSX, your post is amusing, but you're really just saying, in a sarcastic and annoying manner, what I said in the first post. I did not say the Wii is "uniquely uninteresting," I said it interests ME (that's an opinion, a thing which you, me, and everyone else is completely entitled to have) the least out of the thre, yet everyone with one is so Holier-Than-Thou.
They sell TVs that big? @ SD/HD comparison image. For some reason I can't imagine a TV showing something that size looking comfortable in my living room, and I live in a large house compared to most.
What do you mena, how big? They sell TVs of all sizes, from 18" to 100"+
i mean that TVs that size are ludicrous. I mean, the TV I have in this room is 18" at most. Sure, it'd be nice if it was bigger, but nowhere higher than about 25", and I can live with it as it is now. The TV in my living room is about that size, and it serves me fine. All this making TVs bigger and bigger and bigger is just daft outside of sporting events.
Oh, 18" is tiny. o_o I have a 32" LCD in my room, and it's one of the smallest TVs in the house (the one in Dad's room may be 28", I'm not sure)
A dozen, Cyc? For Christ's sake, man, just shut up. You know you're losing when you can't make ME look that bad. Do you honestly, no-sh*t, think I seriously thought twelve Xbox games worked on the 360? twelve?!
That's what you said, and that's what a dozen is. Twelve. You were clearly not exaggerating when you said "only a dozen work".
and isn't 300/500 60%? In any standard test, 60% is a failing grade.
I guess it's a good thing this isn't a standard test, then. 300 is a far cry from the "only a dozen" you had previously claimed were working. And, as I said, the remaining 200, with maybe two or three exceptions, are mostly terrible games that no-one in their right mind would want to play. So who cares? If a tree falls in a forest and nobody hears it, does it make a sound?
And even if you weren't claiming that only a dozen actually worked, you were still criticizing their "hundreds" claim, when it does in fact seem to be true.
However, concerning the Wikipedia link Cycle posted earlier, I noticed it mentions that there are currently 298 Xbox titles currently compatible with the 360, which it says is around 30% of the library, not 60%.
I am not contributing my own opinion to the topic at this time, but I am going to highlight a couple of key differences between UK and US housing in order to better explain why HDTV adoption in this country is slower than in the US, which directly affects this topic.
It should also be noted that the PS3 and Wii are international products and that the US market does not reflect fairly on the worldwide market, as I hope will be made clear.
If you take a look at this list, you should see the primary issue: We Brits only have a strong economy because we pay ridiculously high prices for absolutely everything. More to the point of this topic, for the money spent on a property we get very little space. My parents can just about get away with owning a 28" widescreen SDTV in their house.
Also, this list here of the prices of HDTVs in the UK should further prove that in this country, many simply cannot afford or have room for an HDTV in their house. HDTV is taking its sweet time to catch on in this country - in fact, we may not even get HDTV broadcast signals until 2012 at the earliest, due in part to the general public's reluctance to switch over.
And that's just our tiny corner of Europe.
EDIT: For reference, as I write this 1 = US$1.96, so a 399.99 TV costs US$784.86. You can do the conversions for yourself here.
