As someone who knows jack squat about Fleetway's Sonic the Comic, I want the opinion of people who read it...and perhaps those who read Archie's Sonic the Hedgehog as well.
Which version was superior? Which version was better from a story-telling perspective...which one did Sonic better justice...which one had better art...etcetera etcetera?
And if it were possible, would you want Sonic the Comic to return?
Bearing in mind that my opinion of StC is based largely on nostalgia-o-vision and my exposure to the Archie comic is some very early issues and what is talked about in the Archie forum, it's probably fair to say that I don't have a very good overall perspective on which is better (relative though it may be). But I'm going to post anyway as I'm trying to put off doing some java coursework. 
It's probably fair to say the StC had much less romantic goings on in it, which as far as I'm concerned is a plus (it just seems... too far from what Sonic should be about to me). There were very good stories, and there were very bad stories.
I tend to remember the earlier game adaptations of Sonic 3/Sonic & Knuckles (am I right in thinking that story was written by Kitching?) fondly, but cringe when I remember all those one shot comics based on awful jokes with substandard art.
I really liked it when StC had other Sega franchise stories in it (Shinobi, Streets of Rage etc.) and quite frankly thought the comic was worse off without them. As I remember, Decap Attack carried on for a long time (which is odd - I mean, who remembers anything about the actual game?). While they were going on, there were less filler Sonic stories (at least, from my perspective).
From what I've seen of the art in the Archie Sonic comic, there is some good art in there, but also some dodgy stuff. StC was the same, but if you ask most people who read StC they'd say Richard Elson was by far the best. While he tended to suffer from trying to emulate the current Sonic game's art styles (like that one image of Sonic with upturned spikes from Sonic 3D), I can't think of a single Elson story that didn't look good.
There were other good artists (and other bad ones), but I forget their names. My favourite team for the stories was Elson and Kitching, easily.
Overall, there were problems with StC. For one, I didn't really like Sonic's portrayal. He came across as being a jerk and never really seemed to be shown as having many redeeming qualities (I think there were attempts to show that there was more to him than that, but perhaps the comic ended too early for anything significant to come of it). If you ask me, Sonic should be a laid-back free spirit and not a bully.
I did like ideas like Super Sonic being an evil version of Sonic and the Metallix collective was quite fun. The origin story worked well within the confines of the comic's universe, and the time travelling part where Sonic essentially created Robotnik was sublime if you ask me. Knuckles was usually a good read, as well as the Chaotix.
I never really liked Archie/SatAM's dark dystopian future with all the other characters like Sally and whatnot or the huge menagerie of backup characters. It just seems very un-Sonic to me. StC was also very different to the source material, but in a way at least started with the same heart (sort of) as the games. I think the story was more suited to the spirit of Sonic, but I'm biased.
Really though, when it comes to which is better it's chalk and cheese. I expect a lot of people who read the Archie Sonic wouldn't be able to get into StC (especially with its dated pop-culture references and British humour).
What I'd really like is a Sonic comic with one writer and one artist that does adaptations of the games, keeping the tone and characterisation, and following them more faithfully. Still, I digress.
As for StC returning, while a little part of me wants it to come back but a larger part realises that it's too late. You can't bring a comic back from however many years of oblivion with so much continuity attached to it (I mean, who would be able to read it?). Plus, it was very definitely a product of its era and more or less reached the end of its natural life. I think it should just be left in peace, really.
Now, to get my flipping java to compile.
Warning! N00bish response pending!
I prefer StC because it's a little darker.
But no it shouldn't come back, the fan comic would die.
Having now finished my mass-bought Archie collection (Albeit with a few small holes) I feel I can now give a reasonable assesment of the two seperate comix from my own standpoint.
I have come to a realisation as I read the Archie comix and remember Fleetway, which is this: There seems to be a spectrum of, for want of a better word, "sanity", running through both comics, and placing each issue on this spectrum produced some interesting results.
Fleetway had some really serious, gritty, down to earth (or rather mobius?) stories that were action-packed, awesomely fast-paced and completely blew your mind as you read them! However they also had some completely rediculous, crazy and downright annoying stories as well, which IMO spoiled the whole comic by insulting the intellegence of everyone, even brain-dead me!
Archie has nowhere near the range on the spectrum that Fleetway did, which is largely a good thing, as they have not yet come close to the utterly mind-mashing and enraging stupidity of some of the Fleetway stories. They seem to have stuck largely to the middle ground, between the two extremes. The bad side to this, though, is that even in the worst, most dire, most deadly scenario, there's always a small underlying hint of fun and games, which detracts from the realism and overall excitement of the story somewhat and therefore doesn't grab you the same as some of the Fleetway stories did.
At the end of the day, what people prefare with regard to this spectum would be personal preferance, but for me, I generally prefare more serious, gripping, exciting stories...yeah with some humour inserted (it wouldn't be a fun comic if it was all action pile-on-the-chaos etc) but with somewhat less than Archie's usual banter, and DEFINITELY less than Fleetway's mind-melting filler stories. After much thought, going on OVERALL preferance, I think I would have to say Fleetway just took the buiscit for me, although it was very close!
Moving from overall feel to specific details, though, each has their own strengths and weaknesses. Here are some that particularly stand out to me:
As Buzz mentioned above, Archie just has waaaaaaaaay too many characters, so much so that I find it's quite easy to forget exactly who is who and where, if ever, you've actually seen someone before! This is particularly true of the Echidna race. Also, the masses of characters create another problem, namely, the need to have rafts and rafts of story time devoted to flashbacks and histories.
One thing that Fleetway got 200% absolutely spot-on perfect were the game-comic tie-ins! The S3&K series was completely and utterly mind blowing, and I will remember it until the day I die!
Call me wierd, but I am not at all keen on Archie's tendancy to make a story all fit in to one comic. I absolutely loved the cliff-hanger endings that Fleetway produced so often, as they got you so excited and raring to get the next issue as quick as possible!
A major plus I like about Archie as opposed to Fleetway is their broad spectum of character styles (and before you say I'm contradicting the point made a little way above, read on). I don't mean characters...there were too many, but I mean the different emotional tendancies and personallities of the characters. Fleetway, while slightly different, tended to have most of the characters very "Same" and "Steriotypical", just some excitable, brave and slightly stoic freedom fighter figure who reacted exactly the same to every scenario. It worked ok, but it was a little bland at times, and, while I have to disagree with Buzz above and say that IMO Sonic was more "in character" in Fleetway rather than Archie, I do think that the thought put into characters and the character depth/development in Archie is a joy to read!
I do like the Archie idea of Roboticization! In Fleetway, the major danger from Robotnik was simple destruction, caused by his badniks, and no real "humane" injustice. Roboticization, though, is really sinister and creepy, and makes the whole idea of Robotnik being an evil menace so much more believable and exciting! While I have to admit that maybe they've gone a little TOO far away from ordinery Badniks, it is better than Fleetway's Badnik army with the once-in-a-while rare Cybernik appearence.
Well, that's my 2 cents...or 3, or 4, or 5...
Oh, one more thing I HAVE to say though...
Troopers PWN Swatbots any day!!!
Seriously, SWATbots are boring IMO...Troopers were creepy, cool and funny all at once!
And they had facial expressions, those funky teeth and the ability to speak. "Sir! The citizens are revolt-ARG!" [We're not having that old joke in THIS comic. - Megadroid]
STC's best is better than Archie's best, but STC's worst is is worse than Archie's worst (but was at least easier to understand and had fewer characters).
Overall, there were problems with StC. For one, I didn't really like Sonic's portrayal. He came across as being a jerk and never really seemed to be shown as having many redeeming qualities (I think there were attempts to show that there was more to him than that, but perhaps the comic ended too early for anything significant to come of it). If you ask me, Sonic should be a laid-back free spirit and not a bully.
Ah I spoke to Nigel about this, he's my Tutor at Uni, and he said that Sonic was meant to be like the Fonz whilst Tails was the other Happy Day's guy...you know the main character. He wanted to portray Tail's as being like the main guy, smart and talented but like in Happy Day's the Fonz or Sonic in this case always takes the spot light and is an arrogant hog. He picks on Tails because it made him look big and cooler in front of everyone else.
As for the relationship between Sonic and Amy, that was meant to be a bit like kids at Primary School. Amy would tease and proclaim she was his girlfriend but like most boys at a young age 'they don't like girls' or at least hate to admit they may like someone.XD
Cya!
Angie^-^v
...Nigel's a tutor?
Awesome!
i'll swap one of my tutors for him, mine all detest comics. o-o;
Quote:
Ah I spoke to Nigel about this, he's my Tutor at Uni,
Clearly I must kill you and walk around in your skin pretending to be you.
That or go to the same Uni. But the killing option is my first choice.
I have never read STC.
[I know I know, sacrilage, but it was a BIT before my time. Maybe I'll pick up some scans one day, but I might not understand the references and British pop culture.)
But don't get me wrong, I can't say anything bad about something I've never read.
I'll defend the Archie comics until the day I die though.
I literally grew up on those puppies. I knew everything you needed to about the characters from the Archie comics.
If you ask me now what I think of all the new developments on Sonic (what with Shadow the Hedgehog) I'll spit on them. Archie completely spoiled me rotten with an ideal of Sonic!
I personally think it formed my whole view on him and not just that, but on story writing and telling!
I'm an avid roleplayer, and I think I owe some of my cynical outlooks and my love of cyber punk situations to the Archie styled Sonic!
I love every character, and made sure to go out of my way and remember who they were and what ties they had to the other characters.
I adored Sally and would sit and bash Amy to the point that I think the comic book pages began to bleed a little (and to this day, I'm still not fond of her or any girl character who whines about love and being someones pooky.)
I loved each character because each one had such personality! I could tell you how any one of them acted or what they would say. I loved how indepth it was. The mini stories were even catchy and I would read them over and over again!
I remember the comics bringing me to tears, and I loved trying to copy that style.
Like I said, I was just spoiled rotten and I have a bias. I love the Archie comics, those were my entire child hood, and I honestly cried the day my mother said "Those ratty old comics? I threw them out!"
Oh the fit I had, and I still miss them. I might pay the hundred bucks to get em all back!
I don't like Archie's new director for Sonic. I picked a Sonic comic up about two years ago and I've thrown it in my closet to rot. The original feel of the comic is gone, along with the art that blew my mind with its dull colors, the detailed metalic collumns, and awesome character expressions.
I loved the cyberpunk-esque feel of the roboticization. It was scary and surreal, and when you saw a character being turned into a bot you just wanted to scream!
I just feel so close to the Archie Sonic I can't imagine seeing him anyway else, but I personally feel like he's been...
Well...
Raped over the years. They change him and his goals so much I feel like gaming companies have lost what Sonic the Hedgehog was, no matter what comic you read.
So that's the little bit I have to say. This is a nice little forum, I might stick around!
you realise that the archie comics have a forum all to themselves? *points two sections up*
Yus, but I figured when you ask for the opinion of one being better than the other, I figured I could talk about why I liked the archie in comparison, considering others above have also spoken of the Archie comics to show comparison or talk about what they liked.
Why does archie comics have their own form, archie is annyoing
and repetitive and obnoxious.
Because your opinion on it's worth means nothing. The opinions of the thousands of people that buy it, however, do, and the forum exists for them to spew their thoughts.
Quote:
Yus, but I figured when you ask for the opinion of one being better than the other, I figured I could talk about why I liked the archie in comparison, considering others above have also spoken of the Archie comics to show comparison or talk about what they liked.
ah, that's fine! i was just making sure you knew about the other forum, as some newer members don't always notice the forum descriptions.
I have not read StC since I was ten (cartoon-fan-renaissance here...) and all I know of Archie I found on the net - but I will say that the large character pool problem wouldn't bother me. I mean, if I can get my head around three versions of X-Men and the film trilogy then I can handle the StH line-up.
Regarding the comments about Sonic being kind of a jerk in StC, personally I liked that. Partly because it produced an interesting, layered main character - in the vast majority of franchises, the hero is the shallowest, least interesting character. But Sonic had depth: the epitome of arrogance, with a very strong social conscience underneath.
Another reason I liked it was because it produced some decent humour, but the most important reason is that it made the cast of supporting characters much more relevant. Because you can't entirely identify with Sonic, you formed attachments to other do-gooders - Knuckles, Tails, Shortfuse, Chaotix... I've never read the Archie comics, but from what I hear, supporting character relevance is a problem they've often had.
i think i have to agree with what buzzbomber said their were good artists, and not so good artists in both archie and STC my top favorite artists are Nigel Dobbyn (stc) and Manny Galahn (archie).
both comics had good and not so good stories but in my personal opinion i think STC had much better colouring especially the colourist for Elsons art and the watercolours, that was just lovely : ).
I prefer the older Archie's the newer ones with beyond Mobius 25 years later was rather pants in my opinion, it just didnt really float my boat.
and STC coming back? no! NOOO!!!! on one account it would ruin the online fan continuation but also, although the company went out of buisness the storyverse itself went out in style because it left its world for the fans to continue however they please. no if STC came back i think it will be dragged out and it will just ruin itself, like how i feel archie is doing, i think they had their time in the lime light and should have stopped long ago.
no offense to anyone who are enjoying the current archies, this is just my opinion, i'm not forcing you to see my way ; ) .
STC how we knew it would never really be able to return. the artists and writers and so on have moved onwards to new jobs/places/etc, so there wouldn't be much hope in being able to lure them back into it all. ^^; anyway, the comic has had a good run.
Archie is better to me becuase im a U.S. Sonic fan ive read some old issues of STC on the new & have Read all of the Issues O STCO & i will admit its interesting, but overplays the sci-fi elements of sonic & all though both are good video game comics , In all honesty archie is superior to the Fleetway comic in various ways, however STC beats it in orgionallity.
So in the end Archies sonic comic is far better, I mean its not that much of a contest I mean the archie one is still an offical publication Where as stc has been reduced to a online fan comic, so I think to put it simply the answer is NO
NO, NO, NO!!!
CASE CLOSED.
While I've never read Fleetway and have only read synopses of the issues, I have to say I love how much of a threat Metal Sonic was in STC. He was never that dangerous in Archie, unless I missed it (which is possible). The idea that Super Sonic was a homicidal maniac was pretty awesome as well.
Plus, it feels me with glee that STC included Metal Knuckles, who as far as I'm aware, has never shown up in Archie. If we could only get Tails Doll in print...
What are you doing posting Kayla? Didn't you get the message? StC lost, CASE CLOSED!!! =P
It may have lost, but it shall never been forgotten!! It shall live on in the hearts of everyone who ever read it!!
...
...
...and I have no idea why I'm having a bout of righteous indignation over a comic I never even read an issue of...I need help... =P
Yes you do, this gal needs an injection of StC awesome, STAT.
Warning: StC awesome also contains amounts of StC craptacular. May be incompatable with Archie mediocre bloodstreams, especially if the case is closed.
Ill admit i may have been somewhat harsh in my earilier comment, Im not saying STC is bad im just saying it was a one trick-horse Sci-fi action over & over (& although I love Sci-fi I love comedy & light romance as well.) any-way ill admit STC did utilize sonic & friends metel counterparts better & grimmer is a more interesting assistant then Snivly in STH, IM just saying overall STC Strayed to far from sonic's personallity wich has been said by saga to be overall nearly carefree I mean in STC Sonic's seems to be more emo then KNUX & thats just not right.
....But i digrese from my ramblings for now.
Yes you do, this gal needs an injection of StC awesome, STAT.
Warning: StC awesome also contains amounts of StC craptacular. May be incompatable with Archie mediocre bloodstreams, especially if the case is closed.
Well, I have been clean of Archie for well over a year. Did Fleetway ever do an archive-esque collection of comics, like Archie's doing with it's earlier issues. If so, someone needs to import them over the Atlantic.
I don't think they did Kay.
And Legion, are you drawing this conclusion only from StC:O? Because it seems like a lot of that comment is based on false assumption. StC did not have as many Sci-Fi elements as you seem to think (And Archie has more then you seem to credit.) Not to mention the whole emo statment only applies after Johnny died which was in the very end of the comic's run, Sonic's personality in this was really less emo and drama filled, more of a gigantic ass. I mean a really big git.
not really just STCO like i said ive read a few issues of regular STC (ok only 14) but thats still not that many i quess, admitingly they were later issues but still sonic didn't seem all that cherry to me. I quess emo is a miss use of words, but he didn't seem as happy as his archie & sega counterparts. & I agree he was a jerk alot of the time ecspecially to poor little tails. (I mean other incarnations have teased tails as well, but STC sonic is the only one i know that called him pixil brain.) & its true that archie has adecent amount of sci-fi as well but it is nearly always balanced out with either comedy, Drama or light romance which i dadn't see nearly as much of (Well except for drama, poor johhny.) in STC. So although as ive said its not that I think STC is a bad comic im just saying i just couoldn't get into the series like i could STH, however i would buy STC archives if they erver came out. (Wonder if archie has any plans to ask fleetway for permisson i mean after all forign comics are pretty popular in the u.s. of late, even if most of them are from japan.)
I'd say he had a British humor version of how Jaleel White was interpretting the character. Given that Sonic Adventure 1 came out as the comic was ending, they couldn't really update his personality to the wide smirking cool and blue as the planet hedgehog that Ryan Drummand gave us.
So whereas White made him a bit of an upstarty fidgetty brat who lusted chilli dogs, StC team made him a bit of an impatient leader of the gang type who would playfully jab at all of his friends and comrades, perhaps with a bit of a sick sense of humor.
I do kind of get how you'd need to be British to get him, at times, but I'd say he's funny and carefree... just... in a kind of jerkish way. Of course, when things get serious, he does too, but that's something all of the Sonic's (except post-SA1) seem to do.
Not that this excuses it, of course. It just means it's a product of a different era. Archie has the benefit of having over 80 issues worth of material after the big face lift which has changed Sonic so much that it's hard to remember how we percieved him before hand. StC ended right after it.
Yesterday I was explaining, while playing SA1 to someone who did not have a Dreamcast growing up, if you played this at the time and before SA2, you'd love it just as much as I do...
Doesn't really stop it being a glitchy pile of puke with bad graphics... but by Ged, it's my glitchy pile of puke with bad graphics and I love it more than I could ever love it's successors.
I agree with ya craig SA is one of the best sonic games of all time....as for your comments on being brithish to fully understand STC's sonic i quess that could be true but then again im an avid Dr.Who fan & "Get" the docotor just fine, but then again i guess hyperactive Furries & Timelords are 2 diffrent things. Not to mention ive seen a whole lot more of the good Dr. Both the old & new series then I have STC's sonic so I guess your comment i justified in that since....anyway is any one beside be angry that neither archie or STCO have used blaze the cat (i mean archie used her once in the Sonic rush adaption but aside from that)....yea..
Throw some mail to the StC-O guys and gals if you want to see that, given that it's a fan comic they'd be more likely to listen to you than Archie. Though StC-O guys are very organized and good at what they do, so they may not just overhaul their plans for a bit of fan service, all feedback would probably be appreciated and replied to.
As for Blaze herself. I am a big fan of her character, however Sonic Team have practically nailed her coffin shut with the whole Sonic 2006 fiasco. We have two games claiming her a regal ruler of the Sol universe charged with protecting the Sol Emeralds and such and one game claiming she's a citizen from a devestated future brought about by a little girl crying.
Personally I favor the DS games, however Sega has to date ignored the DiMPS and handheld additions to the series (most notably Sonic Battle) in favor of the less than impressive core series storylines.
Given that Archie usually have to follow Sega's orders in what they print, it would be a hard call for what could possibly happen there.
Of course, they could just introduce Blaze as an all together new character with no references to Sol or Iblis, but then she's just a cat with fire. Her backstory kind of moulds her personality and without it she's just a rather interesting character design and little else.
i guess hyperactive Furries & Timelords are 2 diffrent things.
No they arn't. Shadow is from Gallifrey.
thats true, since iblis doesn't exist in STH I think they should just do what they did with big and have her bee a freedom fighter from cat country....(One of the smaller nations in STH completly populated by...you guessed it cats.) So I think that would be a good way for them to introduce her into the main continuity of the series, Since its apparent that archies game tie0ins have been moved t0 1-2 issue backstories that appperntly arn't important to the main continuity at all...which sucks. I mean besides the Events of SA & SA2 archie has completly ignored adapting any other games fully into their chronology, which honestly ticks me off.
...Shadows from gallifry, who knew, someone call the docotor & tell him that he's not alone after all LOL!
I'd say he had a British humor version of how Jaleel White was interpretting the character. Given that Sonic Adventure 1 came out as the comic was ending, they couldn't really update his personality to the wide smirking cool and blue as the planet hedgehog that Ryan Drummand gave us.
So whereas White made him a bit of an upstarty fidgetty brat who lusted chilli dogs, StC team made him a bit of an impatient leader of the gang type who would playfully jab at all of his friends and comrades, perhaps with a bit of a sick sense of humor.
I do kind of get how you'd need to be British to get him, at times, but I'd say he's funny and carefree... just... in a kind of jerkish way. Of course, when things get serious, he does too, but that's something all of the Sonic's (except post-SA1) seem to do.
Not that this excuses it, of course. It just means it's a product of a different era. Archie has the benefit of having over 80 issues worth of material after the big face lift which has changed Sonic so much that it's hard to remember how we percieved him before hand. StC ended right after it.
Yesterday I was explaining, while playing SA1 to someone who did not have a Dreamcast growing up, if you played this at the time and before SA2, you'd love it just as much as I do...
Doesn't really stop it being a glitchy pile of puke with bad graphics... but by Ged, it's my glitchy pile of puke with bad graphics and I love it more than I could ever love it's successors.
Hmm, so STC Sonic = early hedgehog equivalent of Dr. House?
STC sonic=dr.house....HMM I smell a fancomic.
That is a good ananlogy though...I was gonna compare him to batman.
(I GOT A SHINY NEW AVATAR YAY!)
Sidestepping the main discussion for a moment to answer another question: there were actually a couple of trades of the early StC Sonic strips. Since they were hideously overpriced for the number of pages offered, things didn't go any further than that.
They're out there, but they're one of the few pieces of Sonic merchandise I've never seen for sale second hand (although since I don't have gaps in my collection, I haven't really looked in years).
Sidestepping the main discussion for a moment to answer another question: there were actually a couple of trades of the early StC Sonic strips, collecting up to somewhere around issue sixteen. Since roughly sixty pages per book made them a bit overpriced, things didn't go any further than that.
They're out there, but they're one of the few pieces of Sonic merchandise I've never seen for sale second hand.
Would i be able to buy these on Amazon or some other book site (I don't have an Ebay account, wish I did but i'm too scared of identity theft.) Id like to read the Early STC comics ive only read there sonic adventure adaption & a few others.
*sigh*
I'm guessing there aren't scans on sites other than here?
HMM.....I wonder If theres Any comic shops in the U.S. that would sell issues of STC I hav,nt found any online though, im guessing if there was it would probably be in New York & lord knows i'd hate to go there. [don,t ask.]
Kayla: I used to have a scan site myself (hence I supplied scans for SHQ - I keep meaning to sort a few more out when I dig out everything from my house move), but I never put it up again after the web space provider went down. If there's anything you're particularly curioys about, let me know and I'll see what I can do.
LF44: Given how long it's been out of print for, I doubt it. There was probably less demand for imported copies of StC in the US than there is for Archie in the UK, and any left'd be getting on a bit.
There's nothing to stop you looking, though.
Yep i shall look until my eyes fall out. I kid but Im guessing I could probably order the trades from Borders or B&N if im lucky if not I Guess I could Just Face my fears & start an ebay account (Probably would help me get some old STH & Knux comics as well.) But I digress I think I'll just Pray that Archie eventually makes a deal With fleetway to Publish GN's of STC in the U.S. I'd also like to see the Manga translated as well (Even if it is only 2 volumes.)
Kayla: I used to have a scan site myself (hence I supplied scans for SHQ - I keep meaning to sort a few more out when I dig out everything from my house move), but I never put it up again after the web space provider went down. If there's anything you're particularly curioys about, let me know and I'll see what I can do.
LF44: Given how long it's been out of print for, I doubt it. There was probably less demand for imported copies of StC in the US than there is for Archie in the UK, and any left'd be getting on a bit.
There's nothing to stop you looking, though.
Much obliged, Sam. I would like to see some more images of Fleetway Chaos. That's a wicked-looking character right there.
When I get back to Blighty I may be able to help you pair out with your search as well.
Sweet! Thanks, Crim.
Anyway, you should say which ones you want sometiem, then me and Sammikins can assist *nods sagely*
I definitely want images of Chaos, Metal Knuckles, and Metal Sonic. I love the Metal clan.
This makes me want to check out both the Sonic Comic series, and the Archie comic Series, to see which one I prefer over the other.
